Welcome to the struggle bubble. I'm Chad Cutting. and I'm your co -host, Craig Sergi, and today we have a special guest, Yousif Khan, a friend of mine, known in the industry in Silicon Valley in the tech bubble, and I'm super excited to talk about his career path. Obviously we both have a different accent to the native Californians, so intrigued to learn more about the transition from. the mighty nation of Great Britain to the... Actually, you're not... You're an official American now. I forgot about that. I became a citizen a couple of years ago. So, although, you know, I'm still a still a royal subject of his majesty of the king, proud, still a proud Brit, but even proud of Americans. There you go, that was a nice introduction straight into Yusef. So again, thank you for joining us. Very privileged. I know you're an extremely busy man. So yeah, I'd love to just kick us off and we'll go from that transition from the Royal Highness now, so into the life of Californian USA based. Yeah, maybe I'll go, yeah. So happy to tell you how I got here, if that's a good starting point. absolutely, and I think, you know, we talk about this all the time of the people we know in our lives and work with, and there's a lot of expats, right? There's a lot of us that, not just from the British Isles, but also all over the nation. The child from Ohio comes into California. There's friends from Canada that came into, there's so many of us in this Silicon Valley bubble. And it's always great to hear people's experiences, how they got there, and as we say, the struggle. Right, because it is sometimes a struggle, right? Did I get my visa? Did I not get my visa? Can I? All these variations that in our world is so, we know about them because we've lived them and it's in your own head, you're one step away from where you wanna get and there's some things out there that just don't align and you have to move, you have to shift. So, love to start there, how you got into the middle of the valley, we'll call it. totally. Well, so amazing to see you again. And I've really enjoyed you and us collaborating over time. So I learned a ton from you and our experiences, both on the technical side as well as personal. So thank you right off the bat for that. Yeah, look, I grew up all over the world. I moved to California in 2014 and had taken a job as CIO of a company called Qualys. And, you know, it was actually kind of crazy, to be honest with you, the story. there's a couple of lessons that sort of came from that. So I lived in London for 20 plus years. I was a CIO of a higher education company. I was traveling all over the world. had a team in San Francisco that I used to frequently visit every few months. I built up a couple of people, a few people I knew here from just from the industry. And unfortunately, I had a management change. And so I showed up at work in September of 2013. And unfortunately, was told, you know, we're making some changes and unfortunately, we no longer require services. And that was hard for me. I will not lie. was... conversation when you get the HR invite on your calendar at 8 a So the funny thing is I was probably going to leave anyway and I actually had drafted up a resignation letter and so I am not joking, I actually drafted it up, I had printed it out because you know that's what I did, you actually formalized not going to do an email etc. and I never got to present it because the good news was, it was like well you know here's some severance etc. I said well okay I'll just put that letter right back in my pocket thank you very much and sounds good. Saying that, I can laugh about it. At the time, it was very hard and very stressful. It hurts one's ego. I mean, I've never gone through it before. You know, I played it straight up and worked my tail off and want to be able to do good work. So this is just not something I had experienced. But, you know, I'll say it is the best thing that ever happened to me. Here I am and what I've been able to achieve. So. What's happened? Well, that happened in September 2013, or October of 2013, yeah, just late, yeah, early October. basically, for the next six weeks, I was down the dumps. I was an absolute mess. I just couldn't handle it. A couple of key things I learned. Number one, there's a bunch of people who will be around and a bunch of people who will forget you. And that's just the nature of it. It was unfortunate. but it's still hard to go through. And then I was trying to figure out what to do. And so I really, what I wanted to do was to work for a big name tech company in the UK, right? Now, why would anyone hire me in the US, right? I mean, seriously, I wear a sweater vest, I've got a weird accent, slightly weird name, live in London. why? I'm not really candidate number one for like, we gotta hire this guy, right? So. And what I did was I basically reached so I booked a flight December 8th to December 15th, 2013. I booked a hotel and a rental car. And four weeks before that for four three three three p to four p London time. Right down to because there was morning time California. I emailed Skyped. Yeah, that was a thing. And every one I knew in the Bay Area. And I said, I am gonna be in town and I would please give me some time. Like 30 minutes, all I do. I'm gonna pause you real quick I love that you realize that your network is your biggest attribute in this situation if you don't reach out nobody knows your situation and you you took it you took a risk right to book a flight in a hotel with a Small part of the severance that was remaining that you've got at last You don't know how long that severance is gonna last right you don't know when the next job's coming And by the way, know, I mean, I'm going to be honest, I was applying for roles, you know, not, you know, a couple of levels that I was, I'm just a workaholic. I was just like, and in the UK it wasn't happening. I was like talking to recruiters and I go, I don't know about the market, et cetera. And I was like, Hey man, I used to be CIO, et cetera. So yeah, it really impacted me. Right. And so I was like, I need to, I just need to go for the win. Right. So. I was the product, I was the SDR, and I was the AE. And my objective was, so to give you some context, I booked 42 meetings. So I didn't have a Google calendar, none that sort of stuff. I basically printed out a piece of calendar, a week calendar, on a piece of paper, and all I was doing was sorting it. Because a time zone thing, and you don't want to get all the other messed up, I was literally at 42 meetings. And the first meeting, by the way, was on Sunday night. I arrived at 5pm from the British Airways flight, think British Airways United. By the way, it the first time I ever filled an immigration form where I didn't know what the occupation was. That was awful. That piece, that actually hurt me the most because you're like occupation and you're like, know, numbnuts, like, complete, you know, useless, basically, non -productive member of society. Not paying tax. I mean, like, you know, just just lost lost cause. And you're landing. Right. And the guide immigration says, you know, are you here for work or for personal? And I said, yeah, I'm here for personal. But, you know, I'm meeting with a bunch of friends and meeting with as many business contacts I can. They're like, OK, done. Right. So so first meeting. And by the way, I here's a lesson learned from the struggle piece. Like you have to make the ask. Right. Like Don't hesitate, okay? People don't know the story about me and Craig Sergi. Craig just reached out to me and said, hey, I wanna talk to you. And I was like, hey, okay, I'll talk to you too. And here we are, good old friends basically. But I booked 42 meetings, okay? Now I'll give you some context. So going a little bit long on this, I apologize. And so basically all I did was, and I didn't have any aspect of distance, by the way, right? So I was like, yeah, I'll take a 1pm meeting in Mountain View. then I'll take a 1, 2 p in San Francisco. No big deal, right? no, sorry. And then, I'll take the 4 p meeting in Sunnyvale. And like, just didn't, no frame of reference, right? then 2013 you're still map questing, right? You're still printing off direct, you're not, you know. I'll tell you the worst product that iPhone came up with iPhone 4 and guess who guess guess who's the idiot who had the iPhone 4 yours truly terrible battery power that big freaking thing like the US it was apps I honestly I was just it was painful a freaking kept it on 24 hour charge it was like maddening I was like what is this thing anyway so yeah I was map -questing it luckily lesson learned just Be good to the people around you and hopefully that will reciprocate in the longer term. A guy called Pablo Doyan, who I will be eternally grateful for, used to be part of my team, used to be based in San Francisco, he decided to leave and worked at a company called Qualys. And so he emailed me said, look, you're gonna be in town, why don't you meet with the CEO of Qualys? I was like, I'll happily meet with anyone. I met with the late Philippe Courtauld, rest his soul in peace, for breakfast on a Wednesday morning. 45 minutes breakfast in, he says, Hey, look, really enjoyed the conversation. Come back to the office right now. I was like, okay, I've got a slot, no problem. Came to the office, met with the now CEO of Qualys, Sumed Thakur, who was VP of Engineering at the time. He introduced me to a member of his team, Bharat Shah, who's another VP of Engineering at a startup right now. Like, I'm giving you names of people I respect who've known. So that's part of my indicating that. It's not just like, I met with somebody. Like, these are people who had impact in my life, okay? I'm not a small. great three conversations, basically said, could you come tomorrow morning? And I was like, I've kind of put a stop to it. was like, listen, I don't even live here. I don't know why you want to talk to me. And they're like, don't worry about that. Like, well, let's just talk. Came at 7 a the next day. The entire executive team at Qualys was there to interview me. Okay. And I basically did that and that built my confidence. Job or no job. The fact is I walked out of that knowing that basically I'd create an opportunity. Right. I was the SDR. My objective was to fill up that calendar. And I basically if I met with if somebody was not available and I'd say who can who else can you introduce me to. Right. I remember one guy who's a really good friend of mine and he was like I'm not in town but me with my brother. I was like I'll meet with your bro. No problem. I met with him because he was in education and he'd be like actually you should meet with the other folks basically. So other lesson learned. You just don't know when you don't know. Right. You need to be able to connect a bunch of people up. Yesterday, I received an email, one of several I've received from, you as a VC, you meet with a bunch of companies and there are companies I get excited about, I can't invest in. But I refer them to a lot of my VC friends who it's a better fit. And I got an email yesterday saying, thank you very, very much for all that you do for founders. We just got a lead term sheet from the investor. And that investor also emailed me and said, thank you for basically referring this founder. Right? So anyway, so three weeks. After those meetings, my confidence a little bit, went back to the UK. I got a phone call and said, would you like to be the first CIO of Qantas? And I said, I will be the first CIO. I said, would you consider moving to Barrier? I said, I'll be on the next flight. See you in January 5th. Just keep saying yes. Keep saying yes. 5th, 2015, started at Qualis, landed, United, seed 42B, right in the middle, right at the back. Classic, absolute classic. They were willing to pay for me to commute for the first six months, but of course there's going to be economy and I'm going to be in the back. And stayed at the Hyatt house in Belmont. But best thing I've ever done is to basically just go for it. And they said, look, you know, you have to apply for immigration, all the other stuff. I said, I'll go through it. No problem. Done. Right. I'll figure this piece out. And that's what I did. 2014. And so now literally that was in January of. Yeah. January of 2014. I started. Sorry. 2014. January of 2014. And and yeah. Just celebrating my fact 10 year anniversary. So. And it's funny because a lot of the times when we speak to people in the community, cetera, and a lot of this, obviously we're both based in Los Gatos and we coach in the area. And there's a lot of this psychological side of it as well. have, you know, young children. Eleven is my eldest and nine is my youngest. And building in that innate of you always say yes until you say no or they say no. Right. Just keep moving forwards. It may be difficult. It may be tough. You may need to find another way around. You just keep saying yes until you say no or they say no. It's a building that, and I don't know how to categorize it either. And you've done it, Chad's done it, I've done it. How you just keep moving forwards and no's not really a word either in the context of things. You just keep manipulating moving, talking, traveling, whatever it is to get to where your destination is. Resilience, right? that aspect is, look, I was born in Pakistan. At the age of two months, my dad got a job in Egypt. I lived in Cairo for several years. I then moved to London. My dad got a job then in Kenya in East Africa, okay? So went from having &M's, Kit Kat, Coke Cola, Cherry Coke, Dr. Pepper, to one television channel, okay, in Nairobi, and nothing, okay? You I mean, I know you're like saying, wow, this guy really got his priorities straight, but when you're 12 years old, that's what your priorities are, Like just lost all my friends, start again, et cetera. Like, you know, and then, you know, went through a whole bunch of trials and tribulations there. My dad's business went up and down and it was a whole, you know, family issues that all came with that basically. And then, you know, I went back to London for a university after I graduated and did my A levels. graduate high school, etc. But the reality is my entire life has been a large struggle, right? And the lessons that I had to learn, as hard as it has been, is that you have to be able to figure out what the next step is, right? The goal, like, hey, I want to all of this stuff, those dreams are important, right? That's important. But... the moment you feel a little bit, actually just take a step back and say, what is the next step that I have to take? How do I move forward? Now people ask me this question, they're like, how do you think about this? And how do you think about founders and companies and all the other stuff? And people come to me for advice all the time and I'd be able to do it. And I have one critical piece of advice, which is that you are, as human beings, we are able to dream and then some. We're like, hey, we want to achieve this. We want to be able to go there, et cetera. those are our dreams are intangible, right? Like can't touch them. We don't know. Like it's a visual, right? In our head, basically. And we don't get stopped from dreaming. Our fears are also intangible. But why do they stop us? Right? Why do you all of a sudden get into a place you're like, I can't do that. I can't do that. Why? Right? Now, it's easier said than done, but that's what you need to refactor. And from my standpoint, you have to basically say, what are the steps I need to take forward? I was down for six plus weeks. I have no idea. Seriously, I was applying for a whole, I just, think back, I'm like, my God, what the hell was I thinking, right? And I just, I had to go for it. The other aspect is you have to know that you went for the win, right? You have to say to yourself, I've gone for the win. tried to get, I gave it my best shot. And sometimes it's not even my best shot, but I have to give it a shot. Right? And salespeople are greater. They're like, no, I have no balls. I'm just going to go for it and basically try to do that. But, know, there's something to be said about the fact that you have to say, look, I don't want to live my life in regret. That's how I made the shift into venture. I'll tell you about that story as well. But, you know, I think that those are the key things I would basically. as you went through that, one thing that really hit is just those relationships. And you talk about the intangibles of dreams and you don't know what the future holds, but you keep giving 100%. A lot of people don't understand those relationship sides. You never know when that phone call is gonna be needed or when somebody is gonna give you that phone call and how you treat people throughout. A lot of outsiders see Silicon Valley as a ruthless place of multi -hour days of trying to get ahead and claw and scrape. But I think you touched on a fundamental... The valley is a small place, the tech industry is a small place, treating people the right way is the right path. I couldn't agree more. I don't know whether I'm a weirdo in the bunch, right? That's just how I operate, okay? But the lesson I learned from my life, and there are no shortage of hardship that I've gone through. There's been a bunch of rigor that I've had to go through. And I will tell you for a fact that there were a few people that helped me along the way, okay? That has never escaped me, okay? I did not have... half of my tuition, my final year of university. I worked three jobs to pay for college in my first year. In my second, last year I didn't. And some guy I was working at the company I was summer intern at got to know me, et cetera. And as we got to know each was like, okay, what do you need? And you can pay me back, right? To this day, like if I, know, like. That is a name that I will always like that that person individual helped me. When I left Qualys to think about what I wanted to do next, I had no shortage. have quite a few people. know, Sean Green, one of the greatest human beings. He was a guy at NetSuite who is an account executive. Like, let me give you something. Let me show you the gem. OK, I left. I was his customer. I was leaving. He has no vested interest. In fact, he's losing out. He's like, I've lost an executive contact. He was the first person to email me and said, where can I connect you? What can I do to help? To this day, I will make sure that is like, so, and just that gesture alone, the fact that he was able to get me an interview and get me on the road, that means a ton of me. So to go back to Chad, these relationships are important. I've helped dozens of people get jobs. A bunch of them don't even know I'm as a referral. I've had dozens of companies who've got funded. Okay. And I they do know the referral because the VC need to know that I wasn't just passing on. But I believe that if you are one of the things that has made, I think this industry and it does get maligned and by the way, fairly in a lot of cases. Okay. I get that. There's a bunch of stuff that this industry has not done well. And there's that's a whole separate podcast of this. yeah. of conversation. get that. But saying that, I believe in a couple of key things. One is that if you are nothing in civilization has been done by one single individual. It has been done by a collective of folks. OK, so we take that lesson at large and we're able to basically build it in our own ecosystem. Community, town, industry, company, firm, startup, whatever it is. Somewhere down the line, net result of that as a cumulative will be positive, right? you step on a big point, the community side of it. And I was talking about the emotional state of it as well, right? You feel down, things are going sideways, whatever. But I always, we're talking about this to one of the baseball coaches, a pitching coach, Thomas at Stanford, about flow state. When you're, even though you're down, but if you still do the right things at the right time, treat the people, the community aspects of it, that flow state goes in and your brain starts going at a different level again, right? You make those 42 meetings, you make this, you have those. You've got, but if you don't get back into that flow state, you're then in trouble. That's when you need that community to drag you out and get your momentum going. So that emotional state is, is huge. And I think we have that a lot in the Valley as well. Here's the thing, here's a newsflash for you. Goals are supposed to be hard. If they were easy, then they wouldn't be goals, would they? Yeah, yeah. you tell me about, again, we talk about it in the sports world all the time. Like, just talking to my kids about it, will get you so far, but work ethic will get you further. Someone will outwork talent every single time. You have to grind. Craig, is really important, Chad, and what you're doing is really, I love both the podcast and the thought process, is understanding people's stories, whatever they are, not just mine, but that helps a dimension in our society, which is much required. Like, we need that, right? And I think that's important. And so that's part of how you build a community is you ask the question. not just, hey, what do they do and where do they work? It's like, what does this person believe? What do they need? What is their story? And that genuineness and authenticity, I think that moves the needle. And I try and basically practice it and make sure that it is kind of true to myself. But that helps build a genuine community and the ability for people to collaborate, no question. think a lot of people assume that you've gotten to a level, like somebody is a CEO because they were born to be a CEO. They have this quality about them. And sure, there are those skill sets, but a lot of us don't know what the heck we're doing on a day -to -day basis, but it relies on everything we just talked about to just figure it out. And if you have the attitude of figuring it out, then you appear that you should be a VP, you should be a CEO, you should be a CIO. What was your kind of... Uncomfortable moments as you go through in these different roles and when you kind of look around saying, I better I better figure it out. I better get on my game. Yeah, well, the biggest thing is you have to be, I mean, at least in my industry anyway, I think you have to be intellectually curious. Like if you don't have that, I think it's very difficult to be, I mean, look, it's a bunch of luck, sure. Luck has a part to play in all of our stories, right? But I think you have to be intellectually curious. And that requires you to actually understand. One of the things I did as a CIO, which I take great pride in is, I understood every aspect of the business that I was part of. I did not shy away from that. There's a lot of CIOs, no disrespect, man, will not do that. There's a bunch of CXOs that won't do that in a bunch of companies, right? And I did that because I thought that that was, in my viewpoint, that was the best way for me to be the best CIO for that company because I can make the best decisions because I had the full picture. You got to understand the picture. Well, and I think you've built that, right? You mentioned it a few times. As you were getting out to the US, you were your own SDR. So you went all the way down the sales pipeline, and we're just giving it the acronym that we use now, but you went all the way down to what's the starting job of a salesperson? It's generally an SDR, right, or a BDR. They're making calls, they're learning the language that, so for you to go as a CI or a C-suite to then realize, I need to actually know what we're doing all the way down. in the trenches so I can do my job better as well. that, so, you I know, you you're giving us the example of you learning the whole bit, but dude, you've been doing it since day one. You know. of the things, so even in my CIO role, right, as I became a CIO, the way I became a CIO was, I am the accidental CIO. I was supposed to be in banking and finance like 90 % of my other friends at King's College London. Like I summered, you my summer job was at a tech startup, it's well publicized company called QXL, where I was moving boxes, okay? But I was like, wow, internet, online auction, venture capital funding, what the hell is this, right? And that's kind of a big deal, it's pretty interesting. But I got involved in technology because I played every single role or every single aspect of the IT team. Data, IT support. I I joke, right? Like, hey, by the way, no ticket left behind. I'm the guy who was basically, I worked in help desk, I worked in systems, I sat down at two o 'clock in the morning when we were looking to do a big release, understanding what Oracle upgrades were, right? Sitting down at the DBA guys. That allowed me to understand. People said, you know, there a of people who cannot get to a CIO role, even though they've been in an IT organization, is because they haven't had experience in some of the other departments. I said, you don't have to have experience, you have to have an appreciation and understanding of what they do, right? And that requires the ability to do it. With venture, same thing. If you look to my LinkedIn profile, I'm not the number one choice to come into a venture firm. Until you meet me, until you meet with founders, until you meet with CIOs, until you meet with other VCs, like, Wait a second, this chap happens to meet with more founders every weekend than we do, right? He's basically being an early customer of companies like Zoom and Moveworks and Datadog and Snack. What's that all about? me pause you there, mate. They still call on you for advice. So you were there since day one, you believed in their product, you may not invest in them, you may not do any of that, but I'm personal, to a personal touch on this, you will meet me in Mountain View on Saturday morning at Starbucks for an hour, and we can talk about anything, we talk about cricket, or we can talk about tech, it doesn't matter. But you're always, the thing that I really appreciate about you is you're always available when you're available. I have factored in, I have figured out the right way to be able to balance personal time, family time, and be able to basically move things further forward. I've been able to do that. The other aspect is you've got to do what you absolutely enjoy. Right? if you, that, first of all, I enjoy it. But the second is I know I'm moving the needle forward. I'm moving things forward for somebody else to do it. So 10 years, you know, so far. every Saturday and Sunday morning, if you have been a founder that wanted advice or guidance or feedback. I couldn't be the customer of 50 startups, but I could happily give you feedbacks to why I think it's interesting or not. I just did that because I could, because I thought it was the right thing, because I thought founders really required it, that they weren't getting that from folks. And I enjoyed doing it, selfishly. I was learning as well, no problem at all. And that allowed me to be in the industry. You're the original Meetup before Meetup was a thing. It wouldn't go that far. I said, there's no shortage of companies that the founders took some feedback on the product feedback or took a bunch of introductions. And that's a great story. And if I can help, I'm super happy to do that. But it keeps the muscle going and being able to actually understand where things are moving. It's also very, part of it is like, yeah, I'm happy to take a pitch, but I'm also learning. Most people forget that. It's actually a two -way exchange. In some cases, it was kind of crazy. like, wow, you actually believe that. In other cases, you're like, wait a second, what was that? They're like, actually. And then the most insightful ones is what new are you learning? And when I basically spoke to some of the founders, they were like, yeah, actually, here's the problem here. You're like, whoa, I did not realize that. And then I'd go back. That actually made me a better CIO because I was able to learn about issues that I... would not have normally basically done. So we likely have a mix of people listening now that are either sitting in their their big company roles that have hesitated to start a company or to join a smaller company to take a risk. And you also have founders or early stage that are listening to this saying, I don't I don't know if I can keep going. It's not as successful as I thought it was. It's not as lucrative. I'm in the valley. We got funding, but damn, this is hard. What's your advice for that spectrum of of individual that is looking to to figure out what's next? Very simple. Number one is make a decision. Indecision kills you. Right. And as Craig knows super well basically time kills deals. OK. So make a decision first and foremost. That's like the objective is to make a decision. Right. Rather than so that it sounds obvious sounds crazy. Like really. I was like yeah it is. Second honestly you are allowed to have an off day. You are allowed to have an off week. In fact I will grant you that you are allowed to have an off month and an off year or two. Third, it is completely your choice. I'm saying these things, you have to understand, my data point is like hundreds of founders. I've been hearing this and so I've had to collate this and I'm kind of sharing it from a stand point is ultimately it's free will. Here's two points. One is there's a whole world outside of tech. Welcome to the bubble, but period, how? There's a whole bunch of, there's a bunch of people, you know, we're just another bunch of folks trying to make it in the world, okay? In the biggest scheme of things of where we are, like, I love what you do. I love what I do, it's great, I do it with the people, I could have worked with a bunch of other firms, I chose to do it here with the people at the stage, et cetera, et cetera. It's free will, okay? So that's one aspect. The other aspect is, just remember, in the biggest scheme of things, Right. Think about what the best thing is to be able to move things further forward. Right. And the other aspect is, yeah, you actually have you done everything possible until that you've made that decision. Right. If you haven't, then you're not doing it justice. Like you have to be able to say, I've asked these five people I got now. I asked, you know, if you don't get funded, you don't get funded. The market tells you your product too early or you weren't very good pitching. Like it's no. And by the way, No big deal. 80 % of startups fail. Like that's just the nature of the industry. One thing I would say is people say, well, you know, should be, should I be founding a company and all the other stuff? I hear this all the time. And I actually say, don't do it. Okay? Let me tell you why. One of the things I've realized is, like the founders, if you want to be a founder, you don't ask. You just go. Right? You just, you're like, don't need anyone's validation. Right? With respect, do you think Garrett Camp and Travis Kalanick were like, how many taxi cabs, et cetera? They were like, no, we want to build a cool product that basically does this and they formed with Uber. You think Mark Zuckerberg was at Harvard and he was like, let me look at the data that tells me what the market looks like for social media. No, he was like, I'm going to go basically do this. You think Larry and Sergey did that? It was not a data driven decision. It was a, we think there's something here. We have conviction. We're going to go ahead and basically build this. Amazing, you can agree and disagree with them all you want. But the core objective that I would say is if you are able to make a decision, if you know that you've exhausted all the options, if you know that you have asked for help, those are data points that allow you to say, maybe this I need to change direction, maybe I need to pivot, maybe I need to think about hiring, maybe I need to think about firing, maybe I need to, but decisions is the output, because that will help. I love that and I know we're just wrapping right now at the, well, we're past the bottom of the hour, but I think on those points, that's a great place to end. you know, Youssef, I don't want to pitch you, you know, people can find you on LinkedIn and I know the type of person you are. You're happy to help anyone. So yeah, again, I don't want people bombarding your LinkedIn because I want my own personal space there. No, I'm joking. But the... Yousif could be found on LinkedIn and let me just give you, I will give you a quick pitch. Some of the speeches you do with some of the VC firms that you help and partner, I know the one in the Pakistan one I've been listening to, the articles you write in LinkedIn all have nuggets of absolute wisdom. So my advice would be go check out Yousif on LinkedIn, go read his articles, jump on some of the podcasts you've done in the past and... If I can help connect the dots, I am more than willing. We did it with Robert as well, with a few people that listened, happy to help. But Yusef, I appreciate the time, or we appreciate your time. Can't wait to grab a coffee. Look forward to it. Chad, great too. Thank you, Chad. is great. This is really important. I appreciate it. Thank you for joining us. Everybody listening, please find us on Instagram, the Struggle Bubble Pod. We are actively engaged in all the conversations and looking forward to bringing even more guests throughout and continuing the conversation. Thank you to our guest, Yousuf Khan. Craig, we're to talk about that stress ball that you've had in your hand to make sure everything's OK. We'll talk about that in the next episode. Thanks, everybody. Thanks.