Welcome to the struggle bubble. I'm Chad Cutting. And I am Craig Sergi. We are excited about our episode today. A good friend, Austin Stephanie is gonna be joining us in just a second. But first, Craig, we've had an interesting weekend. We got back to school that happened last week. We kicked off football scrimmage, a couple soccer matches, and you were down in LA for a good friend's wedding. How was the weekend? It was a lot, but it was fun. It was fun. It was great, actually. It was great. And back to school, by the way, everyone in England, is eventful compared to what we do. And in England, by the way, when you go back to school, you just go back to school. Yeah, you don't have a big show and partner. There's a show and pony. Is that what they call it in England? No pony show, which is a show and pony. You bring your pony to school. Well, most people write it, yeah. Yeah, well, I think parents are very excited to have the kids back in school based on the soccer game that we went to this weekend. So Theo and Lex play and I had to be down in the corner because the amount of screaming that was going on, was like nobody's listening to the struggle bubble because they don't know what's important out there. Like literal screaming at the referee, screaming at the kids, screaming at the other team. It was... It was not how you want to start a soccer season, but the girls handled it well. They battled through and Alexa had fun. So it was a learning episode. was good. Did you win? Lose? Tie? It doesn't matter. Alexa had fun and we went after and got Starbucks. here we go. me to Starbiz and I'm set. Get me in for Starbiz. Yeah. are excited to welcome our guest. Austin, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's always fun to have a familiar face on here who we know so many stories and they don't know what stories that we're gonna bring up, Craig. So we'll have to just, we'll keep them off balance. Austin, so you know, I messaged Callie a week ago and I said, Callie, give me a story that Austin doesn't know or that wouldn't know that we know. I still have not heard back from her. So you're off the hook. So now you're just gonna have to deal with what we know. That's on brand, so it's good. About how long does it take Callie to respond to your text messages? Usually five phone calls after said text works out. All right, so that's where we messed up, Craig. didn't do the phone call. That's why Austin's in sales, Five phone calls to close, there you go. dirty pitch, and then he just keeps following up until he gets the answer he wants. Well played. that works. Well, we're excited to have you here and just thinking about the struggle bubble, you're living it with us, right? You're volunteering, you're helping out on the soccer pitch, you're helping out in Little League, your full -time job, new job, you're in the thick of it. But just to reset with everybody that's listening and meeting you for the first time, you look on your LinkedIn resume, you have done what I think would be if you had to write it out ahead of time, the script for a sales career, a successful sales career. You started from scratch as an account manager and worked your way up, got into the VP ranks at some large companies, established your name, then go into a smaller company with Rubrik and got to ride the fun IPO train, which not many people are able to do, and then start a new CRO role recently. If you could look back, is this how you thought your career would be scripted, how it would go 20 years later? I don't know if I had much of a plan, to be honest with you. Yeah, we're all in the profession of the thing that we didn't go to school for. you know, I started finance in college and I basically figured out, you know, three years in that I didn't want to go be a fund accountant in Hoboken for the next five years of my life before you actually get the trade. So I started a college internship. because it was the one that allowed me to live at home and not pay all the money of rent. And it's kind of like, I nagged my way into a tech sales job. And basically we were the first ones that started after, our first day was a layoff that happened at the companies with a cheap labor that came in. In my exit interview said, there's no way you'll get a job here, which, was a great way to end the internship. But then the next day they did the second layoff and that person was fired. So I co -called their boss and basically said, hey, the exit interview that I did yesterday doesn't seem as relevant. Can I interview with you? And then that person placed me in the next internship. it's kind of a series of unfortunate events that's kind of led me to this point in the career. But yeah, I don't know if it's the way to draw it up, but it's been good 20 year journey. Is that, were you East Coast then or were West Coast? Yeah, I was starting in Boston, right? So was in the Boston sales office. Used to drive two hours across the state from college every day to do the internship. yeah, was, let's see, I was in, I was in SDR for about six months and then they kicked us to the field. They told me on a Tuesday that I was moving on Saturday and I'd never been west in the Mississippi and off I went to Northern California. Thought I was moving to SoCal. And then I got here thinking it was Beverly Hills Cop and I hit the San Francisco fog. where we were this weekend Hillbillies is awesome yep how much of California did you know about? Because you grew up Midwest East Coast. How much of California did you know about before you came out here? I literally thought I was moving to like, Brevley Hills Cop. It was like, that's what I, in my head, that's what I pictured. Beverly Hills cop or Beverly Hills ninja? Well, I guess you could do ninja too. But the, yeah, I remember the first, the first, I basically, the first weekend I went out on a coworker invited me out, because I'd never been out here, to their boat. And it was February in the Bay Area. So I show up in board shorts and a t -shirt. They meet in the marina and everyone's in like, North Face jackets and stocking caps. And I'm like, this is gonna be a cold day. I don't think I've ever been so cold in my life. And I lived in Minnesota for two years. So. That's anyone listening as well people all categorize California as a warm average 75 degrees year -round The Bay Area is not that I think San Francisco's average temperature is 63 or something like that is freezing Freezing when you're picturing Southern California, then you're on, although you're on a boat. That's part of the, it's like a Silicon Valley episode where some of these sales kickoffs that you guys have done and the experiences that you see just trying to close customers, it's a little crazy. So you come out to California, you're on a boat. What do you enjoy most about this sales life though? Like, cause that, there's some thrills to it, some frills to it. think, yeah, it's, you know, it's basically not the lack of sleep at 2 a No, think, mean, the real reason I went into it was I thought going in that it would be the best place to learn because, you know, if you're the person that's at tip of the spear of meeting with a customer's customers, you have to understand the value of the company. And it was a great place to like literally learn business pretty quick. And then you also kind of control your own outcome. Right? Like you're putting half your income up for grabs every year, but then there's upside beyond that. you can like really control your own destiny. Destiny was kind of the early part of it. And then it's kind of shifted over time. Like I think, you know, we're all competitive people usually that find ourselves in this, know, all three of us being, you know, ex athletes. think a thrill, the kill and the win is an exciting part of it. But it also just, you know, you're literally just helping people. Like you're solving problems every day with a solution that you have and to like help a customer, one, see a problem they don't know that they have and see that they could solve it. And then actually like going through the process with you and like realizing that outcome. I mean, that's a pretty rewarding piece of it. And I think what's what earns people a lot of success in this career. Well, let's be clear. There's only, there are only two successful salespeople on this call. I started my career in sales and quota after quota, know, quarter after quarter, quote after quote after, and this is early Facebook for me, things just kept going through the roof. You're trying to almost feels unattainable. You guys love that stuff. You're like, all right, big quota. Let's go ahead. Let's, let's hunt all that down. But Austin, when I first met you, it's like death tax. Yeah, God. was end of court or end of fiscal where you had a blood vessel in your eye that was kind of popped and you were stressed beyond belief. How do you balance the thrill of the kill and the stress behind hitting quota? I think it's the balance of it. Cause I think for me, it's like, I'm a very, I don't know. think like from going back to like early days, it's like been an effort over everything. So for me is I can tend to overdo it. you gotta be able to compartmentalize the things that are important. And like, for me, it's like balance. Like I get up every morning at four, 35 o 'clock in the morning and work out. And I have like that time. which allows me to clear my head. often see Craig and Echo running down the street. But I think you've got to have some of those things and then be intentional about like the rest of the time that you have. what you got to be like investing in what you're doing and not have one thing interfere with the other. And I think I've had multiple parts of that journey through my life where like if I redline work too much, then like health and family and relationship suffer, friendships, et cetera. So I think you you're always trying to find that kind of symbiosis. And you just get better and better at it over time. Because again, if you overdo it in one part of your life, everything else will suffer, right? But that's part of the journey and probably the struggle bubble that we're all I thought you just wanted to test out your medical benefits. That's true, yeah. Good healthcare. Yeah, to see if it's still working. How far into the sales journey did you start to prioritize that balance? Because on a few episodes we've talked about, when you're 20 something years old, you don't know anything else. You're just going full out, you're having a good time. And then there's kind of light bulbs that come out at each milestone. I'm curious for you, that age, was it the role in moving from IC into management? What was the event that caused that balance? I think it changed over time, right? So I think like, if I go earlier in my career, it was like, I literally work out and I would work. And those were like the things. And I probably redlined too much in both of them. think, yeah, pre -Kathleen Meyers. SDR, BDR, first AE. You're out drinking with the team after the end of the, you you're doing, you're amazed because somebody gave you an expense account and you're like, wait, can I, I can go get drinks and somebody else pays for it. I just have to a client with me? I'm in. Yeah. And I think what happens is like, especially earlier in your career, like you're trying to get as far as you can, as fast as you can before like all the other complexities your life come in. So that's okay. I think the first time it kind of hit me was I was a sales leader. I was probably 27 or 28 at the time. My now wife, Callie and I went to a friend's wedding in Italy and it took like 10 days off to go to Italy. And it was like, I was expecting like the world to shut down. because like, how could the team and everything operate if I wasn't there? And it was actually, I got back and everything was fine. I mean, obviously great team and everything else, but I think I had been institutionalized that like, you've got to work 80 hours a week to be successful at all times. And then as a leader leading from the front. And then I think it gave me a little bit different perspective. And also, you know, I think over time I learned if you're the one leading the front there all the time, it also sets some. Bad examples for folks. So again, I think there's been multiple elements, like having kids is another one where it's like, you you want to get home to your kids, you balance and you always, we always have like our, significant others as like good counterbalance for us to point out when we're on one side or the other of the, of the red line. I think, yeah, but, yeah, I mean, I think it's an, it's a constant journey and struggle that we all kind of go through, right? But I've just gotten better with it over time. So you've gone through, you're in the trenches, you're closing deals, and then you transitioned into management roles and significant management roles over the past 10 years, the most recent years. What was the adjustment like for you to shift gears? For me, it took three, maybe five years to just get out of that day -to -day mess and work at a higher level. I'm curious how you juggled that and prioritized. how to learn how to be a manager. Yeah, I I think I did it early in my career, right? Like when I was 27, I moved to be a leader. pretty, it's pretty young to be a leader to what company you're working with at that point. Yeah, I was at EMC, right? So first time leaders. Yeah, yeah. So it ran like Northern California, Northern Nevada. And yeah, I'm gonna be honest with you. I probably at that point in time didn't have the emotional maturity to do that job and like understand the things that I understand now. Cause it's like, which is a great learning experience. But cause the things that make you great as an IC don't necessarily make you great as a leader because like, people don't do things the same way you do them. They don't see the things. And a lot of times companies will promote like their best people, which, you know, again, the reason they make them great at that IC job is different than what makes a leader, but also like the people that they're leading don't necessarily have all the same skills that they have. So I think like trying to work and balancing how do you take those skills and then break them down to like meet your team where they are. is an important thing that's learned over time. Like, I think that's one. Yeah. to cut you off, sorry, do you think that's changed in the industry? Because I see the same thing. I see people crushing their number, they go into leadership and it doesn't work out for them. Then they go back to carrying a bag. But I think the industry has led everyone to believe that if you blow out your number, you become a manager. It's like the trajectory path. But I've kind of started to see it change a little bit, some good and some very bad also. yeah, I mean, I think, I think like the other piece of it is like, it's not as a leader. It's not about you anymore, right? Like the job and it's like being a coach of a sport is like, how do you make each individual on your team successful? And I think that was like, for me, the light bulb that went on probably when I went to SAP was like, Hey, if I make every person on my team successful by default, I'm going to be successful. And it was like, you take the org chart and you like flip it upside down. And it literally comes down to like, Everyone's job is to make the people that are working for them successful. Because you're all overhead. Like at the end of the day, as leaders, that's what we are. And I think that is like a guiding principle has served me really well. And like everything that I do in a day is like, how do I enable like the leaders underneath me to like make great ICs is really important. Like how do you recruit great talent, bring them in the door? How do you train them and make them better? And I think a lot of leaders aren't trained on how to train. And then what are the things that we're seeing make people successful and like share that with everybody and then let the, if you do this, you will be successful and then hold people accountable to that. like, those are the things that I think like great companies figure out like what are those elements it takes to be a great leader and then train those as skills to then they can help their people. Cause like that first line leader job in any company is the most important job that there is, right? yep, totally agree. mentioned us as coaches in previous episodes trying to do the same thing. We're leading organizations, soccer, baseball, try to train the coaches in that private sector. I'm curious from your perspective, Austin, former athlete, former CrossFitter, we can talk about your... muscle ups muscle ups doing muscle upset when you're over 40 years old. But as a former athlete, how much of that work ethic and training and empowering everybody around you, being that leader, was brought out through athletics for you as a kid? I think, for me, it's more of like, I probably wasn't the most like, naturally talented athlete. Right. And I think for me, was like, I had to work hard at the things that I did and like, probably had to like train harder in the off season to be able to put myself in a position to like play at a pretty high level. and I think that's like the skill acquisition aspect, I think was something that, that taught me, through sports and I think the team support aspect obviously. But I think that's really how I approach from a business perspective is like every choice I've made has been how do I acquire new skills? So like when I've left every company, it's been like, what are the skills I'm acquire in this role versus like what I currently have? And if I do that well, the money will come, the career opportunity will come and that's like led me pretty well. And think you just have to go fight. So that's one aspect. The other thing is like, being the fact that it's the struggle bubble is like the learning is in the struggle. Like you got to fight through things in order to get better at them. Like whether that's a skill or again, wins and losses or hardship or whatever. Like the only way through it is through it. And like, I think that's a really, really important thing. And my dad used to have this saying, which was like, life will never be as simple as it is right now. Right? And like when you're like, yeah. And like, you know, if you're, you know, kids that are six, seven, eight, nine, like you gotta go to school. You gotta like eat your vegetables. You gotta go like, you know, practice and to play sports and that's cut and like have play dates and like your social dynamic and that's about it. And then like, when you get to like, we've kids are all going to the first year of middle school. There's more emotions. There's more to manage. They're in like, You know, we've got, Craig and I have the girls in comp dance. Chad, you and I have girls in comp soccer. there's a lot more that are vast of them and they have to go manage over time. Then you get your license and you've got more freedom, but there's more to manage. You gotta get a job. You go to college and now you have more freedom, but there's more to manage because now you're kind of an adult, but you're in this like your own little bubble. Then you get the first job out of college. You can figure out who you are. then you get married and have kids. And it just gets more complex. But I do think, you we're probably in the prime of that right now of like the true complexity of our lives. But we learn these things through our life. And I think being aware of like the learnings and the struggle and I'm acquiring skills and I'm trying to get better every day. I think that all it like started from sports, but it's like led those tenants through life. I said this over the weekend at the wedding somebody asked me just for graduating is like he's working at like PWC as an intern not like a whatever coffee like take -your -order person, receptionist kind of no they don't have baristas but that's basically what I say is that no no no I go in the rooms and I ask Pete I'm like sounds like a sounds like a waiter and and he said what should I do I was like dude get into sales is that really I don't think I'm ready for sales I'm like you may not be right here But that's the whole point dude, like you're to get punched in the face so many times and it just thickens your skin. You get confident in the ask you do, you know, all these different things. said, I think everybody should have some and everything is selling. Don't get me wrong. But I said, I think you should go and do that. guy's name's Ethan. just to go and get some reality. Cause to your point, Austin, school, you're protected college. You're not paying for your parents. most of the time parents are paying for it. A car, maybe you have to earn gas, but it's not real real life. Then when they finish school, they're like, shit, what do I do now? Like my passion is, I want to be a DJ, whatever. All right, well great, go do that, but learn how, you still got to sell it, dude. You still got to be able to go into a club promoter, sell myself or whatever. So it's interesting you say that, you're right, dude. It's pretty easy till it's not easy. So just absorb it at the time. That message of resilience has come up in a few of the episodes. We talk whether it's at work, at home, on the field, you're going to get hit in the mouth. And nothing worth having is easy. We were just talking about this with the freshmen on the football team. It is hard to do conditioning after a two hour practice. It is hard to want to get in the weight room. It is hard to want to practice after the first week of school. But because it's hard, it makes it worthwhile. If everyone made the team, and everyone can say that they're a football player, comp dancer, comp soccer player, then it doesn't carry as much value. And it translates all the way through, you know, through work, that first job, that second job. You just don't really realize it. You wish you could write the blueprint and then do it over again, make all the mistakes and then do it a different way. But teaching those lessons and Austin, just getting to that, right? You're highly successful in the sales world. You've built great teams, you've scaled teams, you've gone. from regional to national to global, now you're building your own team at home with your family. What lessons are you bringing to the table? You come home from that hard sales day and you're out coaching Little League, you're out with the girls. I know you're not dancing, I hope you're not dancing and teaching them anything there, but you're trying to educate and teach those lessons. Where do you see it translating? Where do you see yourself able to communicate with the kids? And where do you see it kind of a of a struggle where they say, dad, I don't want to listen to any of this. Well, I think it's easier to coach other people's kids than your own kids. Cause I think I'm like, when I talked to, we had Jack going to a soccer game yesterday and I was trying to like give him stuff to think about. And I think I was like the teacher in, you know, Charlie Blount. So I don't know if I've solved that one. I think it's a little bit of osmosis and see what they pick up. For my kids, it's more of like, have fun with them. doing it like my son like sports like I'll play you know, will football or soccer and so forth with with with my son Jack and we just play right and I might give him some like one or two things a day to like think about but like at the end of day it's just like he just wants to have fun with his dad and like love the game and love to play and like if you ask like what's his favorite sport it's always the one that he's playing he plays four sports and I think that's it. that's an important thing. Keep spitting the truth. Keep spitting the truth. We talk about it all the time. If they don't love it, what's the point? Make it fun. there's plenty of times for it to become a job. You know, and I think that the training aspect will turn into that at some point. I think that's one. Two is like. I don't know if it's really outside of sports, but like, think where we live is like, know, we spent three weeks in, in, on Cape Cod with my parents, who watched our kids. and basically it was my wife and I were working, they did, I was sending some baseball camps and the kids like went to the beach and like, you could just see the, anxiety levels drop in the kids over like three weeks. And insane when all your kids are under the age of 12. Insane. And I asked the oldest like, Hey, you seem a lot calmer. What is it? And she's, you know, she's like, I don't feel like I'm late all the time, right? I'm not like over scheduled and so forth. And like for us, it was like a key of like, as we looked in, like what the fall looked like with her going to middle school and like what comp dance classes she's or comp dance team she's on and so forth. Like that informed some of those decisions, but I think it got, it gets easy where we live in the Bay area. that it's like, everything's high octane, everything's like now, and it's like, and there's a bit of like keeping up with the Joneses. That just like being, yeah, and there's like just being a different part of the country, it's not the same. And I think like one of the lessons we tell our kids all the time is like, comparison is the thief of joy. So much so that like my six year old has said it on play dates when kids are arguing over board games. I've also... what does your middle child say back to you when you say comparison is a thief of joy? She says, you're the thief of joy. But I think that's an important thing for people to kind of realize, right? I just picture your sweet daughter just saying that straight face to you. You're the thief of joy. But, you know, I mean, these are the lessons that you try to instill in the kids and it might take 20 years for it to sink in, but, you know, you try to do your best. Yeah, and we've seen you work hard to create that balance too. I know the last five years in a high octane environment trying to grow a company and head towards a public offering was crazy. What did you try and keep in mind to keep that balance? nobody can be perfect. Craig often says there is no work -life balance. We're just trying to make sure that we're there when we can be there. What is your mentality coming in to... Be accountable to everybody that you support at work and also be accountable to everybody at home. I think that's the key. think one is realizing why you're doing things. I used to just leave from the front, do whatever I want, or not whatever I want, but do wherever I was asked to go, I would go. I would be in four cities in a week. I'd be in a situation where I'm in Iowa, there's a sales call that's happening in Dallas the next morning. I'm like, I'll just fly right there. And, and, move schedules. My wife didn't necessarily know what city I was in a lot of the times, right. Which might be communication or issue on my part, but like, there was a lot of like, you do kind of what it takes, but I think some of it is like fooling yourself. Of like, Hey, you can be more organized in doing this and being more intentional about your time and like, really compartmentalize and the things are important. So like, for me, it was like health, right? So I get up, like I said, at four, three in the morning. workout and the reason I do it that early, like I don't like getting up that early, but like it's not in the way of my family, right? And then like for the travel schedule. like I went from travel wherever I needed to go at all times to, Hey, I'm going to travel three days a week, three weeks a month. So I'm home four days in a row. I'm home for the weekends and then I'm home nine days in a row. And you know, that just stole a lot. was a lot more manageable and intentional. And then I made sure if I'm traveling, it's not just like one, I'm not traveling for one meeting. I'm going on three meetings. mean, everyone with a candidate, being with a partner and trying to make it as effective as possible. And then, you the other part is like, and again, I'm still learning at this one is like being intentional of what you're doing. Cause like I was, we were on vacation a week or a couple of weeks ago. And you know, I got a Slack message while I was at dinner. with my family and I, know, basically Kelly's like for 10 minutes, you were like in a different world and like we all pick up on it. So I think like you've got to like the current company has this, this one of the values of EBC is work hard and then go home. And I think that's, that's really important of like, you don't need to do everything every night. Like there's things that you can do tomorrow. And like the world's not going to change because like you waited 12 hours and spent the time with your family. And I think that's getting a lot better at that over time is something that I'm still trying to do, but being more intentional I think is important. think you made two key parts there and I think we all do it as well. We put work as the barrier, right? You could do something else, but it's like, if I've got work, everyone knows to step away, because I've got to do this right now. And we just use that as an excuse. We just put that as a barrier, right? And it's bullshit. We shouldn't do that. Like if we're doing something with the kids and you're totally right about the 10 minute thing, dude, you get into a deep slack or an email or whatever. and you're in your heads in a different, different world. And I'm always cautious of that as well. I'm trying to be, and I think it's maturity. As we get older, we realize to your point, you went away for 10 days when you were 27, fully like, okay, I'm RD, et cetera. Nothing changed, It's still a move forwards. You're away for 10 days. It's still the same thing. You're away for 10 minutes. Still gonna move forwards. Whatever's gonna happen, happen. And you just perfectly described what we're trying to communicate with the struggle bubble. Because that filter that goes on, it's not just a work call or a slack, it's everything. Where you're bringing your state of mind into that zone and nobody else around you is aware of that state of mind. But you're living it and you're trying to be there and to snap out of it. We try and ask our kids the same thing. They're in the zone. Something is very important to them, but we need to get out the door. Put your shoes on, let's go. And they've got their own filter on. that trying to raise that awareness of we're all going through something. We're all struggling with something. We're trying to juggle it. But being able to have a schema in place, a scaffolding in place that you can use in those tough times. So with a couple of minutes left, Austin, let's talk about that. is something that we want to start having with each of our guests each week of the struggle of the moment. What are you going through right now? that you would say is a struggle. And then at the end of that, we're gonna ask you, how are you approaching it? What help are you, what tactics are you using? What help do you need from your support group to get through it? Let me hit on one thing you just said and just and then I'll move to that is one of things is like you actually the question of like how do you move from like an app like a Sales rep to a leader and I think one of the things people lose is like what makes people great sales rep is like they have empathy for their customer and they're trying to understand how do you make The customer successful and they have those skills But then they move to a leader and then like they manage versus lead and they don't realize like you have to have the same empathy of like how do you make Your sales rep who's now your customer successful. And I think what happens is we might do that at work, but we don't do that at home of like really understanding, okay, where is you about to coaching, right? So the coaching is like how you might have something you understand, but you've got to break it down and meet the kid where they are so that they understand and consume it. And we might even do that as coaches of kids in sports, but I'm going be honest with I don't always do a great job with my kids, right? Cause you just, you take it for granted. You don't think through, you don't have that same empathy all the time as a parent. because again, we're in the middle of the struggle bubble, we're in the middle of like this high octane world we are. like, I think that's, you know, that's something I think at least I struggle with sometimes of like trying to get kids out the door, trying to give them the activity because I have a call, a comment or whatever. And I think it's, again, it all comes back to empathy and there's skills that we have. We don't transfer them to some of the parts of our life that could like use them the best. That makes sense? And then I think, I think it's always the thing that you're struggling with is to the point you made before is you have a responsibility in each of the things that you're doing and if one gets too much, the other ones suffer. Again, I could go on vacation with my family for months at a time but then probably get fired and all these other things. There's consequences to it. I think you've got to balance it. And the other thing is like, you've got responsibilities for all those things. Like you've got responsibilities for your health because like you want to be there for your family and not have like limitations. You've got as someone that does a, as a leader of people, I've got a responsibility for the people on my team to make sure that like I put them in the, in the right situation to be successful because they went and bet their careers, their livelihood. They've chosen to spend more time probably doing this and what a mouse is going do than the other things in their life. So there's a huge responsibility that I have to go live up to for those people. And then again, you do that really just to support your family. And I think it's just this constant battle of like, again, life has never been as complex as it is right now. And it's always kind of balancing these things and you don't do everything perfectly, but you've got to just do your best and always kind of move forward, right? words of lip -eye. you ever get the imposter syndrome? yeah. Yeah. think, I mean, I think that's natural for everybody. think, less over time. the best advice I got with this is like, I think I had it really like really early, like, somebody, especially you meet with somebody that's like a C level or like somebody that has like accomplished a lot in their career. Yeah. And I think that's, that's something that I think over time, the best advice I got with that was our Rubrik CEO Bipple Sinha, because I asked him similar question because they had like John Chambers on the board and John Thompson who was the chairman of board for Microsoft. And I asked him, hey, how do you think about meeting with these people? And he's like, hey, they're all just people, right? He's like, at the end of the day, they're all just people. And they just might be, they're further along in their journey or they're in a later chapter in their book than I am, right? But like, I'll get there. And they were where I was probably at some point. And I think that sometimes we forget like these are all people and everyone's gone through their own journey. And I think that helps aspect of it. And then the other thing is like just you can control what you can control. So like things you worry about some of those things and it just doesn't really help anybody in the process. So I don't have to answer your question. No, totally, dude. I think it's, I talk about all the time. You got to get in flow state. When you're in flow state, you're at full speed, dude. I know all those things that are pinging you along the way, you just kind of ricochet off or you take care of in the second that needed and then, but if you get out of that flow state, it's hard. it's really difficult to get back into it. Cause then you start overthinking, imposter syndrome kicks in. Should I be doing this? Should I be doing that? To your point, where am I working? How many hours am I doing? All that shit. But if you're in flow, you're good. You're good to go. I think that's, I mean, that's another thing I think I learned from like sports was like take the CrossFit thing is like I get up every morning and like give it my all and know that like I left it all out there and the hardest part of my day was over. So then everything else got easier. And then what, what like the best years of my career I've had have been the years where I'm like, I couldn't have done anything more. Like in hindsight, it would done something differently, but like you can't do that. You can only kind of go forward. And I think that's like, part of like being intentional, like can you be a, if you're, if you're going to go do something, go be a force of nature at it. We don't, don't kind of half do a bunch of stuff, like be intentional with what you're doing. And then it just comes down to like the balance, right? So much of this translates, just kind of laugh a little bit of we're saying similar things at work about our own careers. Give it 100%, sure you could have adjusted something A or B, but you gave it your all. We're teaching our kids the same thing. On the field with their homework, right? If you don't understand something, great, give it your all, try and get there. If you don't understand the play that we're running out on the field, go 100 miles an hour and we'll figure it out. It's when you're tentative or hesitant and you don't go after it, that you start to get in a little bit of trouble. And then you have the worst of both worlds where you're not accomplishing what you want and you go back and say, I didn't give it everything I could. And that's, mean, that's why we're all here. I think that's why we're all volunteering. That's why we're managing. We're trying to make it all work and having pride in what you do. That's the biggest worry that I have right now in our society and at home is if you don't doing something for a reason, and Austin, you hit on this, then it makes it meaningless. And you don't care if you do a good job because you don't want to be there. You don't want to go through that. You're going through the motions and that does everybody disservice. And we've had coaches like that. We've had waiters or waitresses like that. We've had administrators and bosses like that. And it just down levels everybody. It makes it such a bad experience. And I think also what you're saying and what you're doing is just living up to that. Making everybody around you that much better so that they can live their best lives, their best careers and see success along the way. I think people pick up on those things more than you know, right? Your kids pick up on it, your teams pick up on it, everybody. So think there's like, can create, just having velocity and momentum around like that intention, I think. drives a bigger impact than people can see. So I think that's a great point to check. Gotta get it, boy. Gotta get it. it, gotta get it. Austin, we have really appreciated this conversation. Appreciate you coming on. Any final words of wisdom for anybody in that sales career right now, early in their journey, someone that's gone through it and is actively mentoring new sales folks? First, to the struggle level, right? There you go. And then, I gotta get the shameless plug. then, yeah, I think it's just a matter of like build the network of people. And then, you know, a lot of times you're in, if you're in a sales career, right, and you're giving it your all, and like, again, effort drives most of the outcome. Like the reps and SGRs and folks that work the hardest. are the ones who get the most opportunity, make the most mistakes and get those learnings faster and then typically outperform. So it is literally an effort game. But then also you're doing it with other people that are in the same kind of block of life. Like people that you're in SDRs with will be reps together. People that you're reps together will be leaders together. And there's people that I was SDRs with 20 years ago that were in my wedding, right? That I still talk to all the time. There's reps that like, we're all like, I'm gonna... First sales team I had like half of us are CROs right now. We talk all the time, right? So I think it's important to keep those connections of people because everyone is in the struggle that you're in and they're gonna be in the struggle you're going to be in. So having those like folks that you can kind of run ideas, get help with, and then, you know, when you need help in situations, they're there. I think that's another important piece, so. Absolutely. Great advice. Austin, thank you. If anybody has questions for Austin or any follow ups, we are available on Instagram, the Struggle Bubble Pod. You can also find Austin on LinkedIn. you know, if there's anything I know about Austin and Craig, I'll give you a shout out to, is they're willing to help. And, you know, that network is there for a reason. And we want to see success and offer anything that we can along the way. So follow us on the Struggle Bubble Pod on Instagram. And we have another slate of great guests coming up, Craig. Excited for the next month plus. Austin, thank you for joining us. We'll see everybody next week on the Struggle Bubble. if you're in the struggle, call the bubble. He's been working on a tagline, folks. Help him workshop it. Bumper stickers. See you guys. Thanks everybody. like this.