Welcome to The Struggle Bubble. I'm Chad Kutting. and I'm Craig Surgey. Today we're excited to welcome Jackie Pimentel to our show. Welcome Jackie, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Jackie, you and I go way back to 2010, back at the Facebook, when Facebook was just the Facebook and not Meta. You've been there about 14 years now, and I think there's congratulations in order. This morning you announced a new role, tell us more. Yeah, it's been, it's been, you know, every year it's like, I can't believe it's another year. It's been 14 years. So I am now leading all of ads product marketing, which is essentially all the product marketing for all the products where we make, help businesses build a business and advertise on across all of our apps, whether it be on everything from WhatsApp to Facebook, to Instagram and, and everything in between. So. Very exciting. I started actually in this organization over 10 years ago. So kind of an incredible experience to now be leading it after all these years. That's crazy, congratulations. And just thinking back, 14 years at any company is a long time, but especially in the Valley, you don't see many people staying that long anymore. What keeps you going and motivates you through and staying at one company that, I know a small stint at Pinterest in between, but you came back and still going strong? Well, I mean, you had a really good run at Facebook too. So I think, you know, first, that's, you know, that was a, that was a dark day for me. my friend, my big friend leaving, and look at you now, now you have your own podcast. So maybe someday I'll have my own podcast too. I, what keeps me, what keeps me there is I am, I'm just a perpetual student. I don't have an MBA. I. And I've also been on another side. So I started out in accounting, not saying that's wrong, but I see what other industries can be. And when I got to Facebook, it was like a breath of fresh air. was like, it was just really motivated people who wanted to do big things and that energy, just keeps me around. There's, there's never a shortage of what's the, what's something to do. How can I benefit the world? And I have a personal mission of just providing economic empowerment to any creator, business, and I get to do that every day. So it really is like the intersection of personal purpose and what I get paid to do. So that's what keeps me there. Have there been, sorry, go, go. No, I gonna you must have seen a big change from the Facebook to, going on what you just said about the role you're in today, from the Facebook where really there was no, it didn't ever start like that obviously. It was college friends, et cetera, then it expanded out to what it is. And then WhatsApp, Instagram, et cetera, the acquisitions. How's that, was that role even there when it was the Facebook? that you're in now? Or did that evolve through the acquisitions over time? actually joined, so at the time it was an organization called Monetization Product Marketing and I joined that group. There was maybe about six people in it, maybe five to six people in it. And I joined because it was small. was like, how do we build products that businesses are going to use? And one of the first products that we were like working on was like pages. a business doesn't want to have a personal profile. Yeah. that. so that was kind of how it all started. so yeah, it's grown a lot. mean, we had. We had a, our top tool was called power editor, which was an Excel plugin that was built during a hackathon, which is like a, stay up 24 hours and that someone built it and you used to have to download and then upload. And it was literally a hackathon and it was tons of revenue. It was going through that thing and it would break constantly actually on my. I went to many weddings like with my husband Preston and. they would be like, you need to help us because our ads are down for his company. And I'd have to go in and like fix something in Power Editor. So it has changed. It's quite changed a lot. That's awesome. the days of Power Editor and you just bring up pages, the distribution of pages and people signing up and buying likes. You've seen an evolution of Facebook and now this juggernaut that everybody needs to use to run their business and reach the right people. The product has evolved. How have you evolved professionally? If you look back at that first day 14 years ago from the interview and coming on board. What are some of the ebbs and flows that you've seen personally? How have I evolved? Actually, I think it's been pretty consistent. think I've always, at the early days, the big challenge was how do you protect this place that people want to connect in from disruptive advertising experiences? And I just had this strong protective instinct of, don't want to put in, imagine if we had, there was on the table, homepage takeovers, banner ads. I mean, these are things that were around the internet that we could have done. And I was like, no, like I am such a lover and user of Facebook. There's no way I would want that. So I don't want someone else having to experience that. So that was kind of the early days. And then now it's more around the complexity. I, I want, I don't want it to be like, you have to have a master's and a PhD in order to be, in order to run a business, grow a business on our platforms. It should be accessible to everybody. What, no matter if you're a creator or small business. agency, whatever. And I think that's been maybe more of the shift is how do we, I don't have to protect the core experience as much because that's just built in. we, users are at the front of everything, but now it's how do you make things easy and simple and work for the average business. I'm glad you brought up the topic of simplification because when I was there, I think 2013, we had a project called simplification. So you need to power all of these business with such high power tools and whether it's our business or Procter & Gamble running ads, you need to serve both. But at the end of the day, it is a consumer experience that you're talking about. How long in between intervals of simplification do you go until you say, let's rein this back in between the small business and the large enterprise? boy, you're bringing me down memory lane. Thanks Chad, thanks for reminding me. highlight on my notes that my private notes of bring up simplification just to watch Jackie's response. Yeah, it's just my heart is palpitating. I think there's always, you always pendulum swing. You swing into, you're innovating, you're shipping a lot, and then you have to swing back into reining things in, whether it's core infrastructure, simplifying things. I'm not gonna use the word simplification, simplifying. And I think you're always balancing when do you go fast and launch a bunch of stuff and when do you kind of pull it back in? I think the main thing is If the biggest blocker to the next growth is people understanding things, having confidence in what they're doing, and being able to actually, their experience being a good one, then you definitely need to simplify and focus on the core experience. So that's kind of a, you know, not, there's no science behind it. It's when you'll know it, you'll know it when it becomes a problem. Ideally, identify it earlier than when it becomes a problem. Yeah. Well, now that I've gotten simplification in there, I'm going to switch gears just a little bit. You've grown and you say, you you're a constant student. You've gone in, you continue to learn. You're always engaged. That's the one thing I've admired about you, Jackie, is you're always in the thick of it. You're not shying away from hard problems. You're putting in the extra work, the extra hours, and you get that momentum going. And then it's, know, Craig and I, and you have been a part of starting a family at the same time. You feel comfortable enough in your career. that it's all right, it's time to grow and build personally. How have you approached being that hard worker, that big work ethic and growing a family and being present at home? So my oldest is seven. So I almost seven. So it's been about seven years. And actually after she was born, I thought I was going to just quit and just be a full-time stay home mom. I really, I really did. I mean, I put in my, I put in my notice. I was like, I can't do this because when I got back, I was, I didn't know the kind of person I was anymore. All of a sudden my time constraints were much harder. I also, my brain didn't work the same things. I was tired, under slept, underfed, you know, like I'm lucky if I get a couple of goldfish during the day, not like live ones, but you know, for us parents in the game, they're delicious. And I really struggled. I really struggled. I don't, I will say to be the honest answer is I did not, it has been a seven year journey. I think now I'm at the place where I recognize that I have to make hard choices and be happy with those choices and lean into those choices. And I can't be everything to everyone. The first thing I say to a new team, which I have a new team as of recently, I say on any given day, I am failing as a wife, a mother, an employee, a friend, and probably other friends on any given day, on any given moment. So just know if I'm not showing up well here, I might be crushing it at home. I might be the best mother. Like today I get to go take my son to a pediatrician appointment. Last week I was in London all week for work. You know, so these are just the things that I just have to now lean into. There's just no constant equilibrium where I'm crushing it. It's always a state of failure and being okay with that. Yeah, we have a kind of a saying, the answer is no until it can be yes. And if you just, if you start there, that this ain't going to work out and then we get to the yes, then we figured it out. Otherwise you just, to your point, you're always dropping something and it's what are you willing to drop? That's going to have a, you know, accountability and then something's going to happen basically. it's... Good, well played, especially saying that to your team as well, hey, I crushed it, made dinner last night. That email I got to at midnight though. So, it is what it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. to jump on the lean in. You said that a few times and we were very fortunate with what Cheryl had put together in the leadership that she had brought to Facebook or Metta at the time to create the visibility of the boundaries because you don't know what somebody's going on, what's going on at home. You don't know, culturally with a global team, what people in Singapore have got going on, people in India have got going on. They're all on your team, you're trying to make it all work. How important is it you to have that leadership to learn from and then also enact your own values when you take on these larger teams? say it was a blessing and a curse. Honestly, I see a lot of the women before me. They made it look really easy. They were always put together in my mind, always put together. They just seemed like they had it all together. And I try to be really open to the fact that I don't. And but that doesn't make me any less powerful doesn't make me any less. It doesn't make me any less powerful. It doesn't make me any less put together in terms of how I lead my family or my teams. It doesn't make me any less strong. But I always had these women above me who just made it just look so easy. so that was the blessing in that is like there were women who showed what that could look like. But I always struggle with, don't. I don't feel like I can achieve that. And so I'm really open with the fact that, I have a lot of help. I have an au pair. I have a lot of help and I have to, I ask all the moms in my community to help. I have to have a lot of help, but I don't have it all together all the time. But yeah, it was, great though to have women in leadership because you you guys are two dudes, nothing, no knock on you, but motherhood, working motherhood is a very different road than working fatherhood. and you need to have your own communities. I love you said the you saying some keywords community help openness Not the yeah, the Patagonia wearing tech guy you mean But there's we talk about this all the time like it's a village raising kids is a village trying to hold down, you know certain jobs It's a village Thinking I'm not good enough the you know, these people are Their hair was probably on fire 95 % of the time, but keeping it all together when needed to keep it together is a skill in itself. And one thing I think you said without saying it was mentorship, right, is having somebody there that you also can call at 10 p.m. over a glass of wine and being like, shit, I got this presentation, I don't know what to do, can you take a look at this? Again, it comes into the village, right? You have to have all these pieces of the puzzle in place. And somehow you keep it all moving forwards, which is incredible. Which is incredible. And you get to see soccer on Saturday with your kids. Which is probably the most important part of the week. Exactly. I got to actually coach. I got to sideline coach. My husband was trapped. husband decided to do a last minute work trip. And so I came home early and had to do the sideline coaching. And he's actually the coach. So I had to stand in for him while he was doing work stuff. So yes, exactly. That's what Saturday's that's what my Saturday actually did look like. Now we're in the real talk. Now we're in the real talk. a second. Let's take Preston's last minute work trip just for a second to the side. We will come back to that. You come home and you get to coach soccer. What has your experience been, you said seven years old, of being on a sideline as a parent to witness the soccer and then the other game that we like to watch, the parents on the sideline? You've just lit the paper, Jacky. You've just set Chad off. I have a one and a half year old, so I had to watch her. have to, I I hide snacks for him to go foraging through. And then when he runs out of that, have an iPad fully loaded. like, just so you know, that is what is beside me. And then actually, then he wanders off and I forget he's there and I have to go find him. But when I can watch my daughter, I mean, it is like, they are just yelling. yelling at these girls. And I'm like, if that was me, I would keep turning my head. And so, you know, they're all yelling at their at their daughters. My daughter is a stud. She's very fast. She's tenacious, competitive. So I don't know where she gets that from. But so I guess but I have to try to let her do her thing. I'm like, you know what? Like it is. It's soccer. I feel like it's the first test as a parent of letting your kid do their thing. and letting them do their thing. And by doing that, by being a little bit more silent, you're instilling confidence in them. Just like go out there, have fun. Practice is when you should be vocal and the game time is when you should be silent. Let them have fun. Let them experience time together as a team. But if every parent is just screaming at their child, it's kind of interrupting the play. That's my take on the soccer. love that take. We love it. We talk about it all the time. It feels like it's a psychological process for the parents where they're living through something else. The screaming at their kid isn't about the soccer. It's about something going on. Working through some things. And then from the kid's perspective, this weekend, my Jackie is now 12 years old playing on a 14 and under team. It's an 11 v 11, a full football field or soccer field. See, Craig, we're wearing off on me. It's a football field. And you're screaming. Because you have to like they're all the way down at the far end. The girls, can't hear you. They don't want to hear you. They're in their own zone. Let them let them go out there and play. Absolutely. I'm staying really quiet because this is hilarious to me. This is great. This is great. This is great because you're totally right. I always, so when I have the tea meetings and I don't know if you've heard me say this before, Jackie, but I interview the parents before I see the kids play just to see who's crazy and who I want to deal with and then to your point about the shouting and the screaming, I tell the parents, I'm like, when... and sometimes maybe do this, when do you ever go into school and scream at the teacher that your kid got a math test wrong? Yeah. because we have to learn one plus one equals two before we go any further. They have to learn to tie their shoes and run in the right direction before we can do anything further. So just because it's a sport, and this can be baseball, football, it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean they're gonna be exceptional. Now some kids will excel, and guess what? They're the kids that also, in math, go and do AP classes. But you don't go in the school and scream at a teacher. So don't go and scream or scream at your kid in the classroom. So don't do the same on Suckerfield. Just drink your coffee. like scream at them. Like, would you scream at them if they were taking a test? Would you go in there and start yelling at them being like, dude, like you would be yelling at your kid taking a test. You know? Yeah. I think that's a good, yeah, that's a good point. It's interesting. It definitely, I will say my husband and I are both very competitive. So we really have to hold ourselves back, but we're the quiet competitive where it's like after the game. My dad was like this too. My dad, my dad played baseball growing up. He played baseball in college too. until he blew out his arm throwing a wiffle ball. he would be silent the whole time. And if I looked at a third strike, I knew I was grounded. I knew I was grounded. And they'd like, your dad is so chill. I get in the car and he would just unleash on us. And so I'm like, yeah, he looks calm right now. But I know when I get home, that man, I am not eaten for three days if I look at a third strike. Yeah, yeah, it's funny. I again, I've said it on the podcast before. The best thing you can say to kids at the end of the games is, love watching you play. That's it. You don't need to say anything more. They know if they've done bad. They also know if they've done well. The funniest thing I always see is when a kid does something good or bad in a game and they instantly turn to the parent for gratification. I'm like, look at me. I'm the one, I'm the coach. I'm the one that's going to tell you, well done, we got it. That's the one thing I see all the time is, and then I can generally spell out what's gonna happen to that kid in their career. Because if that pressure's coming at that age, because I have seven, eight year olds on my soccer team, I can see it developing either in negative or a positive way. It's so true because you're like fostering a work ethic in them. Like who's going to be motivated by practicing if you're just everything you do sucks. And at the end of the day, they're going to work harder if they see enjoyment out of it. Even if it's hard, even if it's like a struggle, but it's like something. and one of the things you do, Jackie, in work, you just said, I always tell the girls, this is your team. I'm just here, I'm providing the safety. I'm providing this bubble that you can express yourself. If you fall down, I'll pick you. But it's a team environment that you own. Because to your point, Jackie, I've worked for people that's iron fist mentality. I last maybe four to six months and then I'm like, I can't do this. I need to be empowered by a leader to do my work as best as I can. Then when I do good or whatever, we blow it out, we blow it out as a team. It's not me. It was a whole group of us got us to this point and somewhere down the line you hope that we all move on and do better, bigger things. But that's why I try and install with the 7-8 years. This is your team. This is your environment. I'm just there as the protection bubble for you to feel secure and do your best work. Absolutely. do that at seven and eight year olds, we're gonna have some great people by the time they're 21, 22, 23, whatever. I love that. That's the part I think we lose sight of. We're trying to prepare people, prepare these kids for society. It's not the half of a percent that go on to play professional soccer or baseball or softball or whatever it is. It's better human beings that we wanna empower and be around in the future as much as we don't wanna be around our kids sometimes when they're learning the process. Jackie, let's come all the way back around to the point about the last minute work trip. to raise kids now, especially in high pressure careers, successful careers, you want to get the A plus in everything. You need a support system. So let's work on that. Did you guys high five in the airport as you were passing each other home from London and he's taken off or was this, do you guys have like a default plan when something like this happens? Well, we were both in London. I already had to go and he decided I'll go as well. And actually the day, two days before we left, my son was in the ICU with a respiratory virus. Grandparents come in the next day, we fly out. I mean, it was just like, this is just the typical, right? was like, great, ICU, get him home. He's doing better. We're kind of like, should we both go? One of us stay home. We both decided to still go. He's got work stuff. I have work stuff. grandparents come in and actually to make my, set up all of our friends in the neighborhood, a bunch of our friends in neighborhood. I said, Hey, I need, can Ryan come over? My daughter come over for a playdate. Can you guys help with this? Can you help with that? It was like the schedule, the schedule was insane before we left just to make sure that everything was taken care of. So we go and then we're barely seeing each other because we're both Working the whole time and then like Thursday we fly home Friday. I think like Thursday morning He's like, hey, I've got to go to Switzerland for another day because I've got a meeting out there So tomorrow you're gonna fly home by yourself and be with the kids jet-lagged. I'll be back on Saturday. I'm like great awesome And by the way, yeah soccer you're in charge of soccer So bring the ball don't forget the balls and the children and everything like no problem. So I Yeah. So that was kind of how it happened. There was no high five in the airport. There was a, he left the hotel. was a thumbs up. Good luck out in Switzerland. I'll see you. See you back home. Yeah. I mean, he's, I will say like, yeah. I mean, again, I'm my brand is full honesty and transparency. I was resentful as all hell on Saturday when he got home. I was like, I was, he got in the house. He walked into the house. There was no Honey, I'm glad you're home. There was, I have been taking grenades for the last 36 hours. Like I haven't, you know, I had, I barely could shower after the flight home. Like you, I am not going to go easy on you today, honey. There is no home cooked meal. is get your shit inside and like help me out now. So it was a rude awakening. Sunday was a lot of repair work. Sunday was some repair work, but you know, Saturday was a full force. you know, resentment. bring like Swiss chocolate? Was there any like, hey hunna, or... no, he brought a bad attitude. That's what he brought up. perfect, perfect. You don't even want it. Don't even go, don't... Whatever happened on your trip, we'll save that till Monday. Then we just kind of kept comparing who was more tired. And I'm like, all right, all right, let's do this. Jack, you've hit on, you've hit on everybody listening is nodding their heads because we, Craig, I know for a fact you went through this this weekend when everyone comes back from Disneyland. Laura and I go back and forth on the same thing. And it's interesting how the resentment builds up because you, it's not like there's a lack of love or anything like that. You understand there's a work trip, there's things that come up, but you're living in the moment of the kid's not listening, they're not going to bed, they don't feel well. And you just have like the images of they don't have to deal with it. There's no cognitive load for that person that's away to deal with it and then you unload on them. And as somebody coming home from that, right, I sign up to coach football here in Los Gatos, I'm gone a lot and it weighs on me and I walk through the door and I'm not bringing chocolates but like I'm immediately trying to jump into, all right, load a laundry, load a dish, like what can I do to help offload it? And oftentimes it still doesn't help because you just wanna, you wanna be heard, you wanna be felt. That was actually, that was that's what it was. That was the fight. That was what it was over. He came in the door and he's like immediately ignored me. And I'm like, actually what you want, especially cause everyone we're all, especially now we've got usually it's dual income. Everyone's got their own thing. X, you know, we're really busy at the end of the day. I just want you to look me in the eyes and see me. That's it. How often are you guys able to talk that type of truth between, I'll give my personal example and then ask that again. You get so in the flow of dropping off at soccer, dropping off at dance, picking up from school, setting them up for their choir concert, buying them the new cleats that they need, feeding them lunch. You just want to go to bed at the end of the night. I don't really want to talk about it. I just want to go to bed. Let's start over the morning, but then those days start to build up. I'm curious how you and Preston are at communicating back. forth when things are in that mild friction or if you're like me and you wait for it to boil over. I don't know if Craig seems to have lot of good wisdom. I wonder if he knows. This is... This is a world I don't know if you two want to get into right now, depends on who's gonna listen. struggle bubble. Let's go. Yeah, I, we, you know, we, do have set time where we will, we will, we will kind of talk about things and which is important pretty, pretty much weekly. I will say that I know, at least for me, I know my triggers are definitely being under slept coming off a work trip or going on a work trip. Those are all things that doesn't matter how much kind of preempt it usually tends to kind of like lead to a boil over. But yeah, we try to check in weekly and then just kind of take inventory and accountability for our stuff and then hear the other person. And a lot of it is just like, yeah, hearing them and walking around in their side of it and vice versa so that we can kind of at the end, every time just be like, we're on the same team. I got you, you got me, and we got another week ahead of us. So let's do it. That's kind of, you know. It's the every week kind of conversation. It's constant. is it boy or girl, the seven year I've got a seven year old girl and a one and a half year old boy. Get ready for 11 and 12 year old girl. It gets a bit more exciting. Well. You can only imagine. It's, no, but you're totally right. I think to judge your point as well, this is where everybody's resentment and you have to check in. there's, think there is physical warning signs. Doesn't have to be verbal as well. To your point, Jackie, the walk in and not saying hi, you're like, okay, this could go one of two ways. I can be, you've obviously had a shit time and I can be super pissed because there's a bunch. And I always say, hey, the dishes can wait. Like what's going on? Like, let's get this done in 30 minutes now. The dishes can wait, the laundry can wait, we'll get to it, whatever, but there's a physical element that you can tell in your partner, like, okay, the world's either gonna explode or there's going on that, but I think I always say to my 12 year old or 11 year old, get right out of the jacket, finish your dinner, put the plate in the kitchen and go to bed. Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba. You're hangry. Finish your dinner. it took me a long time to not be like, stop talking like that. Don't do it. I just bring my volume down. Eat, sleep. Eat, sleep. And you're totally, I think that's from when we hit puberty and I want to honestly, it's like, if I'm tired, I'm a shit show. Like I'm going to bed at night and it's that physical element with your partner. It's like, you're done. You should just go bed. I'm going to tell you, you should go bed or do whatever's needed. Go work out, something. And then. in our house or it's like, fuck I don't want to get on the peloton, right? You are gonna feel better. I know you don't want to do it and then it clicks over. Then we're all good. Well, that is one thing. We are a very active household. So he was, he was actually in the garage lifting weights. Cause I was like, where the hell do you go? And one thing we do do every Saturday and Sunday morning for two hours, we go to our local gym, we put the kids in childcare and it's our two hour do whatever the hell you want. You could sit in the sauna for two hours. You could work for two hours. You could do the gym for two hours. You could break it out however you want, but it is, and we do it and we do it together, but it's like, that is our time to take care of ourselves. We book the kids and in that way, the rest of the day is family day or together time. that has been a real savior for us. good advice. That's great advice. I think Jackie can provide us some really good advice on this as well. So Jackie's a twin with her sister Jane. And I have twins, although boy and girl. Wait, your parents went with Jay and Jay? Yep, Jackie and Jamie. that's gonna get confusing that that must have got confusing growing up they're identical as well, so it's confusing across the board. you have a partner in crime, a sister that you guys are through thick and thin, you're there, I'm sure there's fights and all that. Craig's has two daughters, I have two daughters and a son. As somebody that went through that as a twin and gave your parents, I'm sure, a little bit of a hard time, what advice can you give to us about raising our girls? Great question. You know, my dad and I are very close. I'll take, since I'm talking to some dads here, I will give you the dad advice. My dad was really good about spending time with us, especially his daughters, especially my sister and I. We were into golf. He's a golfer. So a lot of, my favorite times were Saturday and Sunday mornings. He would wake us up out of bed at like six in the morning to go to a tea time. At the time we would be furious. We're like, get, no, just like, leave us alone. Like who wants to get up at 6 a.m. on a Saturday morning? And he did that as well as surfing. He got into surfing. And I will say like, get into a hobby. Even if your kids, even if they are protesting, your daughter's like, I want to do this with you. The best times were those hours on the golf course with my dad. Sometimes we wouldn't really even talk that much, but it was just that time with him. And that was the best. Those were the best, especially during those high school years. Like we would. like 6 a.m. to 11, and then it was great. Those were my favorite times. My dad, I don't think I ever told him that, but it was really important and it helped build this closeness between us. So even when they're screaming at us saying that we're the dumbest people in the world, don't talk to us, go away, we're still having quality time, is that right? Yeah, he used to like wake us up with a shoe because he was like, we would scream so much of them being like, I want to go back to sleep. I don't want to go golfing. And I look and I tell I mean, I tell him now I'm like, thank you for that time. I know that that was not that was time to that he took. He didn't have tons of friends, you know, he could have gone golfing by himself with his buddies. And he decided I'm going to spend one week every once once a week with my daughters. take him golfing, I'm gonna teach him how to smoke a proper cigar. I'm gonna, you know, like that happened later. That happened more later in life. But, and then the other thing too, is he like encouraged, he encouraged us to be kind of spicy, encouraged our tenaciousness. He encouraged us to, yeah, he encouraged us to have a lot of dreams and passions. I remember my twin sister, she said, I want to be a NFL quarterback. That was like in third grade. She had great arm. He encouraged it. He used to throw with her in the backyard. mean, he just was like, whatever you guys girls want to do. I'm for it. I'm behind you 100%. Yeah, that's really cool. dad and the family bonded over baseball as well, right? A's games? Huge baseball. Yeah, I went to the last game together. Yeah, the last A's game in Oakland together. It was really sad. But yeah, we're big baseball, big baseball fans. Yeah, we bonded over sports, athletics. I mean, that was my dad. That was the ground. That was a good ground for us to have a really strong connection. And I think what you guys were talking about of it instills sports as a place where you can instill values. You can instill hard work. You can instill the things you want to teach your kids. under the veil of sports. And that was exactly what he did. He taught us how to play sports. He coached, but then he also brought us to games. were huge Sharks fans, huge Oakland A's fans. And again, these were things my dad took us to and it was special bonding time. But yeah, big baseball fans. now we have all the women's pro sports which is even better. BFC and the... I was just about to say the women's basketball now is really taking off and it's gonna be interesting. mean we went we go to BFC obviously quite often and we were down in San Diego went to the wave game and I mean it's filling. There's 12, 15, 18,000 fans constantly. It's really... in these... yeah, totally. mean, my actually like they bring up a good point. Like my dad went to Santa Clara university. He brought us to Santa Clara women's games back then, even at those soccer games. So this was when Brandy Chastain was playing still and we would go and yeah, we would go and we would watch and, he was a big, big sponsor. So, you know, he would bring us down to the field and that was really cool to see women playing at a pretty high level. Yeah, it's definitely a game changer, especially for my daughters as well. Like there's role models. I think that was the biggest thing that I think was potentially missing was the girls couldn't relate to certain things when now they see these players and they meet them and they realize that they're human, right? They've got two arms, two legs and they breathe. Like you can be that level within X amount of time if you work hard at it. yeah, I think it's really... side, I think on the women's side too, like the NIL stuff has made it actually, I think it's been really good for women. Like you look at an Angel Reese and she can pull in huge contracts just because of her presence or social media presence and her brand. so now you're, you know, these women players are, are able to command what they should because they're able, they're drawing more fans. They're able to monetize their own brands and That also I think is great for girls to see that you can build your own brand and monetize that as well. Well, and pull that full circle to where you are today. Right? That is all social media driven and yeah, the whole... That's right. If you've not got your social media platform built out, then you're gonna struggle. Get them going. Crazy. Let's get them going and then have the confidence to go get it. I think you encourage your kids, you were encouraged as a kid to aim high and don't take no for an answer, just keep fighting, which is big. It does come full circle. A lot of what we talked about is relevant to parenting, to friendships, to being a leader at work, and just being a good person. So as we close up. good people win. Good, well, knock on wood. Let's end this with a little bit of a rapid fire, a rapid struggle for you, Jackie. I'm gonna mix in a little bit of your UCLA background, a little bit of your Facebook background and some hobbies here. Big 10 or Pac-12? Boom. Pack 12 just because my bruins are just struggling in the big 10. They're playing some big competition though. I gotta hand it to them. They're hanging with it. need to step it up. It's just, don't make excuses for them. Okay, Chip Kelly era or Jim Mora era? Jim Mora. Okay, new Facebook or old Facebook? old Facebook. Reels or stories? Reels. OCPM CPA. OCPM. Old school, I love it. right, Hole in One on a par three or Eagle a par five. damn. Yeah, I was gonna go Eagle of Pop 5. And then the most important one. Do you continue to support the A's or do you find a new team? buy VA's and keep them in Oakland. I love it, make your own answer. God, that's perfect. you gonna go up to Sacramento and watch him while I'm in the transition? no, I'm not gonna use F words on this podcast, you know, that, that, yeah. they're gonna be in this shitty little stadium, but it's gonna be great. They're gonna see all these Gonna be great. No, belong in Oakland. Oakland deserves baseball. Oakland does not need to suffer because of some, you know, trust fund asshole who decides that you cannot, you cannot take the AIDS or the heart and soul of Oakland. They were, they were born in Oakland. You look at like they used to play disco music. They were like the, the creators of the way. mean, there's so much of the Oakland cultures within the ACE. I don't care what John Fisher wants to do, but like, That guy has never done anything for himself. He has just been living off of his family. I have zero respect for him. And the A's will be back in Oakland. They will be back. Whether I have to go buy it from John or not, but they'll be back. I love it. I love the passion. As somebody that lost the Browns in 1995 or 94 and was completely just, I know how feels. Now I kind of wish the Browns just stayed away based on where they're at as a franchise, but completely separate topic for a different podcast. Jackie, we love asking everybody that comes on this show just for pieces of advice and I'll leave it to you to take it in a parenting direction, professional direction, but as you have other people who are like you, early in their career trying to make a pattern or maybe trying to start that family or trying to make that next step. What advice do you have for other professionals or the people out there that are listening to this podcast? My advice is so often we're told be present. And then what we do is we think about the times we weren't present or were worried about something else. My advice is be present with your kids, be present with your loved ones. And that means don't think about anything else. Just use that time to be totally present. Don't regret the times you weren't and don't anticipate the times that you need to be just in that moment. choose to be present, which means focus on the feeling of the sun, the smell of the grass, the laughter from your child, and just be present. absolutely love it. Now, I'm gonna be present for a moment and ask you how we can improve the social media strategy of the Struggle Bubble. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Jackie, appreciate spending the time with us today. As always, if you're listening, please follow us on Instagram, the Struggle Bubble Pod, and we will see everybody next week. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.