Welcome to the Struggle Bubble I'm Chad Kutting And I'm Craig Surgey. On today's show, we are very excited to welcome a friend and a licensed marriage and family therapist, Genna Lyons. Genna has done work over the last 20 years with individuals, with parents, with couples, and we thought it would be a great idea that instead of Craig and I waxing poetic about things we just don't know about, we bring an expert into the room. Genna thank you for joining us. Hey, thank you for having me. This is very exciting. It's my first podcast. I don't know where to go with that line chat that you just threw at us. I thought we were very dialled in on every matter in life. You know, we think that, Craig, but it's the peanut gallery that doesn't really know what we do professionally. But it's really interesting because to that point, we've been coaches and parents, coaches longer than we've been parents, but we see our kids growing up. And I think it makes us better coaches because we're going through it. But at the same time, I've never been a parent before I've been a parent. So there's no practice for this. You learn on the job. And it's like, It's great to have you Genna because I think you get to see it from all facets. You're a parent as well, but I think as you see more holistically across your community and as you advise and the education that you've had, you see things in a different light. I thought it'd be great to just kind of jump in. Our mission on the Struggle Bubble is to bring a lot of this to the forefront. Start talking about what it means to be a dad and an employee, a business owner, a spouse, a parent, a coach, all the things that we do, but also discuss where we see hardship, where we don't have the answers and we really want to explore a little bit more. So maybe, you know, just kick it off a little bit of coming out of a post-COVID world. I think it's put mental health into the forefront. We've seen our kids go through quite a bit that is scary and potentially a little traumatizing. You know, going to school in masks, not going to school for a long time, not being able to do certain things. How have you seen the mental health aspect of our kids over the past five years and do you see them coming out of it? Is there a different mind shift right now, a few years removed? Hmm. Well, it's a really good question and a really hard question because I think that depending upon the age the child was when the pandemic started, sort of affected each group very differently. And I certainly saw that, you know, at the school that I was working at at the time, but also in my own house. I mean, I think what our kids lived through was traumatic. for them and also for us. So we saw a lot of increased anxiety, social isolation, and even as parents, we experienced it differently if you were working versus not working, if you had a community around you versus feeling like you were pretty alienated and on your own. But I do think that we're seeing a lasting sort of anxious. generation of kids that were kind of forced onto the devices at a much younger age because of online school and working parents had to occupy kids while they had a meeting. so it certainly shifted, I think, development for a lot of kids in different ways based on how old they were. What are some tips to help acknowledge that and see that? We have a tough time with screen time, as it is, because they're on. mean, just last night, the kids are on the laptops doing the iReady assignments. They have to wait until the green light lights up and be on the device for a certain amount of time versus us saying, no, you're limited to amount of time that you need to be on the device. It's an educational tool, but it also feels a little bit like we're putting a burden on top of them early on before they're ready to mentally handle. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. So I think there's a couple of things going on. One is the schools are using technology and devices more. And I think that can be really great in many ways. I think there's a lot of kids who are not sort of like your more traditional learners and they actually perform better with the devices and the technology. It's just like another avenue of teaching, which is good because we are, we're all, you know, we're diverse people. have different strengths and challenges. And so it's good to, to. introduce concepts in lots of different ways for different types of learners. I totally agree with you, Chad, that there are some kids who probably would not have been introduced to and be on the computer, but when they have to do an iReady assignment for 30 minutes a week or whatever, then it's sort of just putting the technology in front of them at a time when maybe they'd be doing something else. I still really... I don't know, this is maybe an age thing, but I still really love paper and pencil. And some teachers still do that. I think, so there's sort of like the educational part of technology, and then there's the kids using the technology or social media, which is a much bigger conversation in place of play and being with their peers and running around outside with neighborhood kids or whatever it is, which... I think is having a huge negative impact on this generation. So if you're at home and your kid has an I Ready assignment, think it's just, you know, when you're done with your I Ready assignment, like we're putting the computers away and we're going to find something to do and trying to encourage that play. don't know if you guys are familiar with John Finheight's Anxious Generation, this book that he's he's been on Good Morning America. And I really recommend that book. But he talks a lot about sort of why this generation is really suffering with mental health and that we've sort of replaced play and risk taking and peer relationships with social media, which is unhealthy for kids. I got three questions. I'm going to try and keep it to three. Number one, I asked this earlier part of the week, who decides to name this generation Generation Alpha? Number one, routine them up for a real tough life. Number two, what's your opinion on the iPad, the application? Because it drives me bonkers because the kid misses school because they're sick. They instantly go to an F. until they hand in the work. I'm like, that's just fucking my head up immediately. Right, so I don't like that part of it. And then number three is are we replacing play with social media or whatever we want to call it. And is that going to be the future? Cause that scares the living shit out of me as well. Like I don't need all my kids to learn how to change a tire, right? But it was kind of cool when I was... a boy in England at 14 helping my dad change a tire, change, there was that connection time, I guess is what you'd call it, that I'm like looking at my girls and I'm like, dude, I'm just gonna go sit and watch you dance, which is great, I love that, right? But at the same time, I'm like, where are we getting backpacking? When are we gonna go do all that stuff that I did as a kid? So there's a lot of those three questions, but I did well, Chad, I kept it in three, I did well. I didn't even notice the cursing. So, okay. Number one, I have no idea how we named generations. Number two was, what was number two? Number two was, what's it doing to the kids? Seeing an F? Yeah, on this app. Every night, Chloe's checking, like, I'm like, did you hand in the work? She goes, it says in progress. I handed it in. The teacher's not had time to mark it yet, so I'm sitting at this grade. So I'm like, well, when do you check it again? She's like, well, probably in the morning. I'm like, dude, my anxiety's going for you, let alone yours. So, okay, so for those who don't have a child at the, sorry, there's a... this editing is going to be awesome with that in the background. Yeah, but now I'm nervous that our windows closed. No, no, he's off. OK, it went by. OK, we're good. OK, start again. So for those that don't have a child at the middle school that our kids are at, they're using this app called Power School. I don't know how many districts are using this, but it's sort of like you get to, your kids are seeing their grades in real time. And so it will average the grades based on the weight of the assignment, right? And so it's happening in real time. So if you're homesick or you didn't hand something in because you weren't in class, suddenly the average drops, especially now they're at the beginning of this, I don't know, quarter or something. whatever, yeah. So, right, so I'm, this is my first experience seeing this at this school also with the child starting middle school. I'm not a fan. I don't think we should be like, they're like little addicts with the technology. I mean, it kind of fits into like some of the dangers of the devices. Like I think I see kids feeling a lot of pressure to kind of like keep up. keep up with the viral trends, keep up with being able to correspond with their friends and be available to them 24-7. They're on call. When friends are going through something, they text, feel that they need to be available for them all the time. And they say, I've had kids say to me, I'm in my room, I just can't stop. I know it's not good for me, I feel depressed. when I'm scrolling and I don't know how to stop. And so I feel like the Power School stuff, the apps, it's just another thing that kind of keeps them attached. I personally, know, I don't want kids focused on the outcome on the grades. I want them more focused on like, how did you feel when you were doing that assignment? Do you feel like you put in your best effort? To me, that's like more important than focusing on the outcome. And I think those... that constant need to check in with a grade is focused on the wrong thing. How does that feedback get back into the administration though? Because it would feel like introducing something like that. Maybe the intention is for the parents awareness and not for the kids. But at the same time, if we see something that's incomplete or we're trying to best parent, right? But let's just focus on the feedback for a second. Does it get into the system? Do they know the effects, the mental effects that is happening on the kids? I don't know, I'm not, you know, I haven't been involved in this particular school. I would think that most schools are open to hearing feedback from parents. I think it's good for them to hear from parents, like this is affecting my child negatively, it's affecting their mental health. I do think you're right, I think that there is an attempt to keep parents involved. I think as your children age out of, know, elementary school and into middle and high school, there is an effort on behalf of the staff to try to have kids take on the responsibility of talking to their teachers when they're missing assignments and have the parents kind of take the back seat, which is good. I'm not sure that they're achieving that. When I get like a ding on my phone that my grade, my child's grade is now an F because they forgot an assignment. I don't know that I need to know that in the middle of my work day. It's a little distracting. But I think there's maybe like they're trying to achieve parents taking a backseat, but also do we really need to be involved in every little minutiae? I don't know. Maybe they could figure out, I missed this assignment on their own and make it up and I never have to know about it. Well, it's just the hope that there's, the communication then is as long as it's not replacing, right, the teacher saying, hey, this is incomplete and your is suffering, that is communication between a human to human. And the student can then internalize that and you're keeping that connection. But to your earlier point of real world connection, talking in person and being around friends, if that is just being pushed to the app, right, you're just going through and grading and boom, you have an F because you And actually for us, was a teacher's air one time. I put the name of this student over there and I inputted it wrong, which ruined the middle part of our day. know, Lauren and I are talking about what happened. I can't believe this. And then you're waiting for Jackie to get home and then you're having, it just like sets this weird communication boundary. Jackie while she was in school. No, phones are off at school, but let's talk about cell phones in a second. But I think it's just the, like for us as parents figuring out how to communicate and not apply more pressure, the wrong incentives is where I get start to get concerned. Right, I mean. is happening near your house? This is unfortunately not uncommon. This is why we could afford this house. So, you can cut that out. Okay, I got distracted. Hahaha how do we maintain communication, real world communication without applying more stress to our already stressed kids? Yeah, so I mean, I think when it comes to the notice on the app or whatever, it's sort of how we approach kids and giving them the benefit of the doubt. If we sort of come at them and say, like, what is this? Now we've shut down communication or kids are not more likely to come to us if they have a problem, right? So it's doing a lot of sort of open, like, hey, I noticed this thing come in. What's up with that? And then not talking, letting the pause kind of sit. I think as parents we have a hard time we like to fill the silence but with kids you know it's really it's best to kind of just let the the silence happen. You'll get more information that way and to really listen so when they come back and say yeah I don't know what that was about and then we can problem solve and say okay so what do think we can do about it or like who could we you know who do think you could talk to? Does your teacher have a policy about, know, how she wanted you to talk to her, email her, and then you can kind of problem solve with them rather than kind of coming at kids like, why do you have an F on this assignment? You know, I asked you last night and you said you didn't have any homework. But really just like, hey, what's up with that? And then silence. I could go on about this forever and a day, and I know we shouldn't, two questions, just actually one comment, one comment, one question. One, I hate that we grade kids like we grade me, A, B, C, D, E, F. Am I number one? And then the follow up question to that was, it was actually another comment, but to your point Chad, and both of actually, we're seeing the grades, then that leads to, my kids last night, they finished their work, but they were on their phones and FaceTiming their friends. And that drives me a little bonkers as well. At the same time, I'm trying to balance tech versus healthy, unhealthy, like, unfortunately, when you get in the real world, all your assignments are gonna be online, you're gonna FaceTime all the time, you're probably gonna work remotely, right, so laptop, Zoom, et cetera. There's just a gap and I don't know if it's ever gonna change because that's where the world's going and Chad and I talk about this all the time. I don't know how like homeschooling is a real thing because at the end of the day, if you're gonna do an assignment online and I'm graded on an app, Do I physically need to go in? mark? Like, and again, I'm just gonna throw that out there, I don't... I'm going big because... is there going to be college in 10 years because we can do everything via chat GPT and all that. I mean, yeah, and then you have the app, so I checked GPT. I'm sitting there with Chloe doing work and I'm like, dude, if I was you, I would have checked GPT-ness and I would have answered it that way. Obviously, I didn't say that. Hold on. of the reason we have Genna on is not to listen to Craig's parenting advice. well, I didn't say that, but I'm like, you're a pretty smart kid. I would have chatted with you this and pulled this in. the 1980s when we went to school. We had the same questions about doing handwritten math assignments. I have a calculator. In the real world, I'm going to use a calculator. Why am I not using a calculator? And it's the building blocks and trying to educate. one was, you're not gonna have a calculator in your pocket. Yeah, well, how's that sister Teresa in third grade? So I'm fascinated to learn these answers and dig into this because as we talked about the problems that the kids are facing and the stresses, I just think about myself as a grown adult going through the same thing. There are real anxieties and pressures in life and there's an outlet to doom scroll on. TikTok or threads or whatever it is to go through and try and remove yourself from the stressful environment that we've never had before. Maybe we had to some extent with TV where you just sit down and veg out. But Jenny, you mentioned something earlier, we're always on or feel the need to be always on. And I can't help but think that the kids are seeing us go through it. We have a device in our hand all the time. We're trying to decompress from a hard day. and it all seems to converge around, I'll say the dinner table. We've done our soccer practices, our work, our school, all the things that we've signed up for. And in the moments that we do have time to decompress as a family, it's so easy to pick up a device and go in an alternate universe instead of being there, going outside, touching grass and feeling the sun as Jackie said last week. Yeah. So how can we... as parents, make that realization and be more present for ourselves, for our spouses and for our kids. Hmm. so you brought up a lot of stuff. let me try to, let me try to, figure out where to start. So I think as adults who did not have technology in this way, as an outlet, our brains developed differently and we likely came up with different types of coping strategies. and we, you know, we were out. playing with other kids. didn't have quite as much supervision. We had a bit more independence. We probably took more risks. I was listening to something the other day that was like, why aren't there any kids in casts anymore? Kids used to have casts all the time. Like we're really protective, you know? So they're not having those experiences we had as our brain was developing and we sort of came into adulthood. So yes, we are using our technology as like you know, come home, you just want to sit down on the couch and just scroll because it's like, you've been working all day or doing something all day. And this is your strategy to relax. Although it's not all that relaxing actually, but we think it is. It's not as dangerous for us because our brains are fully developed. So for kids that are doing this, they're, they're missing out on, you know, this key time where we start to develop, you know, our our neural pathways are developing and all these things. So they're not taking risks. They're not, you know, learning what it's like to sort of fall down and get back up again. They're not problem solving with their friends. They're not, so they're not hanging out with kids of different ages and backgrounds and all of these things are learning opportunities. So, so for them to use the technology as a way to kind of decompress, that's sort of, it's almost like it's stealing time that. they could be developing in other ways. And I think most parents will say like, you know, when they're on the iPad, they're just in a bad mood. You know, when you try to take it away from them, they have a hard time transitioning. are missing out on self-regulatory skill development when they're on. Now, I'm saying this, but like everything in moderation and every kid is different. So there's exceptions to almost every rule, but. In general, think a lot of parents will say that the technology use, know, if like, let's say your kid is homesick and they're on the technology all the time, that they're just like grumpier and maybe a little more depressed and moody. But the soon as you kind of get them off that and they're playing and they're doing a board game, you got an art activity going, you do see a change in their mood because it's like they're doing what they're supposed to be doing as kids. That's how they're meant to develop. So that's the first thing. think as parents, they are certainly watching. I think when parents ask, like, what can I do to help my child manage stress or difficult things that come up, I don't think parents like this answer, but like, how are you managing your stress? Because they're watching you all the time. Even when you're not in the room, they are listening to you. They hear everything going on. So... You know, even with like small things that come up, like, you know, you put salt in instead of sugar, just like, how are you managing that? And they're watching. and I, sometimes when I work with families, I call it the sports commentator, like say aloud what you're thinking in your head because they start to internalize like, man, I made a mistake. You know, like, well, I guess we'll have to start again. Or you kind of, sounds so silly, but like, especially if you have young kids at home. they're really kind of like copying and mimicking the way that you take on problems. And then as the problems get bigger and the kids get older, you know, it's obviously you have to finesse it a little bit more, but they are seeing what you're doing. So what you can do to help your kids is to really manage your stress well. And it's not just because of the like put the mask on first kind of analogy, but also because you're actually modeling and teaching. I love that looking in the mirror tuck. my kids are gonna be getting your kids in trouble with swearing 100%. But to that point, I'm a big believer in that I'll get on the Peloton and ride a crappy ride just so the kids can see me work out. Like just simple things like that. Like I work out every day and they know I work out every day. So in their head, that is a... lifestyle thing that we do, et cetera, et cetera, right? And it's healthy, whatever. But they're looking in the mirror, it's something I talk about all the time, right? And I talk about it in the sports world the most, like, most of the time when the parents are shouting, I'll tell the parents this as you know, do this, and then I'm like, at some point, that 13, 14 year old kid is gonna be like, fuck you, you go do it, because you can't. So don't tell me what to do, because you actually can't do it either. So. like that old saying, do as I say, not as I do, like flipped on its head. Yeah. Yep. So I love that. I love that advice. Love that. learning from mistakes is just a big theme that we've tried to do at home. And even at the high school with the football team I'm helping out with, make mistakes, go 100%, make the mistakes and then we'll learn. Versus trying to be, the comment of like we're over protecting. If you don't put yourself out there and learn, it's really difficult. Now, when I'm in the kitchen and you use the salt and sugar as an example, I did that for a cherry pie one year and everyone's like, this doesn't taste right. And your immediate reaction is to get all puffy. What are you talking about? I've slaved over this all day. That can't be right. Instead of, I messed up. And some of those moments with our young ones, when they look at you and you say, I'm sorry, did you just say you messed up? You could see the light bulb go off in their brains and we're still working through it. There's a perfectionism that runs through our family like nobody's business where you want to be perfect and if you can't, you don't try. which is really difficult to get them out of that mindset, but it comes from us. That is a newer... I mean, I'm not a sociologist, so... But I, you know, I read the same things you all probably read, just that there's this sort of trend, I feel like, as parents now, we have a hard time letting our kids or watching our kids Struggle. I don't remember feeling that as a kid. It was kind of like, well, like, figure it out. You know, that was kind of the adult response. But... which is good because we can figure it out. We have the skills to figure it out, I do, you know, I have my own experience with that and watching sort of peers, parent, and then professionally too. Parents are really uncomfortable with their kids being unhappy, but our job is really not to keep them happy. I mean, of course we want our children to be happy, but that's not the ultimate goal. And I think sort of... The ultimate goal is to teach them the skills to sort of provide their own happiness, right? And so sometimes when we try to make them happy or keep everything sort of, we manipulate situations to make sure they feel okay, that we're really just taking away opportunities for them to develop skills when they're here with us in the safest possible place versus when they're off on their own and they sort of come across these challenges and they don't have the skills and the stakes are higher. So it's sort of like, you know, now is the time, like let them, you know, cook on their own. And if they spill the, you know, everything everywhere, like, well, like here's a broom, you know, and if they pour their own milk into the cereal and it spills everywhere, like, how do we react to that? We want them to know that like, you gave it a try next time, maybe you'll figure out, you know, how to pour it differently. Like here's a sponge. And they, those are learning opportunities. Those are small failures. from risks that were taken that create competent, independent adults. And we don't need to be so scared of them being upset, because that's childhood. Well, and I think we forget how old they are as well sometimes. Like Chloe's been making food for a few years now and it was, you know, you stand over them at the start and make sure they don't burn themselves, whatever. But I'm like, you're old enough to do this. Like there's, you know, and like walking to school is the classic one, right? She's like, can I walk to school on my own? I'm like, you're in middle school. Absolutely. Like at the same time you're wearing an Apple watch and I can track the shit out of you. But... I'm like go and do it. I know you're do something stupid. Please don't get hurt. And we try and, we said this before as well, like everyone that comes and hangs out at our house and other kids, whatever, I'm like, if you're having trouble, just call. Doesn't matter what time of day it is. Just know there's someone who'll pick up the phone and we'll figure the rest out. like trying to install that at a young age of shit's gonna go wrong sometimes. And that's when the adults can come in and help, because we've got experience. But reinstalling that at, 11, 10, 12, know, 14, 15, especially my big thing was when they can drive. Like, something's definitely gonna go wrong when you're learning how to drive, right? That's why we have steel bumpers, because you're gonna hit something. So, it's kind of installing that from a young age of like, just make the phone call, even if it's super uncomfortable. You know you're in trouble and you know it's gonna go down, you still gotta make that phone call. So, I that's really, really great advice. you have a relationship with your child where they feel like they can come to you. And that starts very young. It's sort of like, you know, when they come to you and they've dropped something or they've broken something, you know, what is your reaction to that? And if you want to build a relationship when your child is 17 and at a party and they need help and they call you, it's because over the years, you know, when they came to you said, I'm really glad you came to me about this. And then you kind of talk through it. rather than like, did you do? And create that shame or then kids don't want to come to you. I also think when you're talking about sort of like Chloe is cooking for herself and doing things on her own, I think most parents that I've talked to would agree that they want to instill that kind of independence in their kids. Typically when that's not happening, it has more to do with the parent than the child. And I think, know, that this is the therapist to me will come out, sort of like working and thinking through, know, why are these my expectations? Why is it important to me that I'm the only one that cooks in this house? Like, what role do I feel I need to serve, right? So, and just sort of being a little more introspective and why, I think most people would agree, yes, I want my child to be independent, but the thing that's keeping that, allowing that from happening might be, you know, a parent's own anxiety or their own sort of. you know, family of origin and how they came to be who they are. And so having some time to kind of look within yourself is important as parents too. So here's a question, how big a role is it that they have chores? Because I'm losing my mind, I'm like, you need to put your own laundry away. You need to make, my big thing is you make your bed as you get out of bed, so you've accomplished something immediately into the day. So how big of that is it or isn't maybe? I mean, I think that's so family dependent. I think if you're a family that really wants your kids to be an active member of the household, and to you that means taking part in chores, then do it. Other families, different cultural backgrounds, it's not a priority in that family, and it doesn't necessarily mean that their kids are spoiled brats either. So I think it's just kind of like, It's a family decision about what's important to you. It's sort of that question of like, allowance or not allowance. To me, those are just specific to the family and what is important to you, what's a priority to you. And then finding ways to make that happen that feels good. And I think though, having said that, most kids... feel really good about themselves when they do things for themselves. So whether that's chores or it's giving them a different responsibility or something, you could ask them, like, how do you want to contribute in the house? And giving them some choice. I think when kids have a little bit more ownership, they do feel quite proud. And when you talk to kids and you ask them, like, well, what do you do to help? They'll smile and their shoulders go up and they're proud of that. If we want to raise competent and independent kids, giving them some opportunity to do more what they see as adult responsibility is good for them. Do you see there an age difference there, Genna, when you have that? Because we have similar things. It's almost less than chores. It's not the doing the laundry or taking the trash out. We're trying to instill that, but there's some bigger things that we can just handle as parents, but there are smaller things. There's your water bottle in the morning to take to school, right? Are they filling it? Can they do that and trying to teach that independence a bit without making it too cumbersome? But we've found trouble just getting over that little hump of, mom, dad, you've done this for me forever. Why do I need to do it? That's their quote back to you. That's your job. Yeah. the, well, can they do it? Yes. I would say nine times out of 10. Yes, they can do it. I mean, I think when it's like getting over the hump of you've always done this for me and now I'm being asked to do this for myself, this is when, you know, like positive reinforcement and putting in some kind of motivator is really helpful for kids because it's not a matter of can't do it. It's not a skill deficit. It's sort of just like, let's motivate you to, to do it. And then you'll see how it. great it can feel when you accomplish it. I mean, when you start talking about morning routines, know, every kid is so different and like, you know their line, like what can they handle in the morning? And if asking them to fill the water bottle is just like, it's gonna like blow up the household, then maybe that's not the time to do it. But maybe there's something they can do the night before or you have to kind of, there's no one size fits all, certainly. But I think motivating kids with you know, sticker charts and when they're younger and then like, hey, if you can do this all week, you know, we can have a special dinner that you get to pick on Friday or whatever. That can be really helpful to just kind of get over the hump and get them into new routines of taking more on. Let's transition a second into the sports world because a lot of this starts to come up as we create that independence and you're no longer coaching your kids. You're taking them into the community and you have different coaches, different backgrounds, different teams. There's a couple of different angles I want to approach this from. One is the oversubscribing of extracurricular activities and what that's doing. And we can go down the free play aspect of what we just talked about. The second is living through your child as they're playing sports and applying that pressure as a parent because you want to see little Jimmy or know, little Johnny go through and be the most successful soccer player, baseball player. And if they're not, it seems like it's pointing back at you. So two meaty subjects, but I'll leave it to you Jen on where you want to go. Craig, you look like you want to say something. Okay. So the first thing you said about sort of like over scheduling, is that what you said? so, I, mean, I grew up playing sports. I think, team sports are. and not just team sports. My children are not doing team sports, which is very new to me personally. But I think they can provide the same thing. So team sports and individual sports teach so many incredible skills for kids, just life skills about, you know, just the concept of winning and losing and dealing with disappointment and how do you, you know, how are you, you know, good sportsmanship? How can you be a good winner? How do you deal with people that bother you or frustrate you and being part of something that's just bigger than yourself, right? I think it's incredibly valuable. And it doesn't have to be just sports, know, like theater and being in a band and like these all have the same kind of skill building attributes. I think when certainly there are kids that are over scheduled and this goes back to this idea that they need a break. They need to just be kids. So part of it is like, what is that? How competitive is this team? Right? Is it fun? are the kids able, do they have time at practice to be silly and joke around? Or is it, you know, are you disciplined when you talk out of turn or when they're standing in line waiting for their turn in a drill, are they able to joke around and have fun? Then that's part of that free sort of like skill building peer time. But if it's very regimented. then it less so, and who's driving it. So if they're, you know, internally motivated and they really want to go to the clinic on the weekend, in addition to the games and then great. That's, know, they're, they're driving them. When we start as adults to push and have an expectation that goes beyond maybe what the child wants or is, pushing for themselves, then it goes back to what I said before. Like, what is it about you? Why do you feel this need? What does it mean if they don't reach this expectation? What does it mean for you as a parent? And work through that. I have worked with kids who've said things like, well, I don't think that I can quit basketball because it's really the only thing my dad talks to me about. And if I quit, we won't have anything to relate to each other. Or if I quit, know, mom's gonna be really mad and I don't wanna upset her. And I do have conversations with kids like that quite a bit. And so I think as parents, we need think about like, how did that develop that the child feels that they can't express, you know, that this is becoming over, you know, a burden? It's no longer something I enjoy. I've listened to your podcasts. I, was, think a theme that comes up a lot is like kids should play multiple sports, that knock it. And that's something that I think has changed quite a bit. I wasn't sure if that was an East coast, West coast thing on the East coast. had seasons that were very, you know, like you play soccer in the fall basketball and the way it was seasonal. And when I moved to California, I realized that kids play things year round. but I think that's actually happening everywhere. We really want kids to like specialize which feels as you guys have talked about like burnout. So I think it's just really having dialogue with your kids a lot. Is this still fun for you? Are you enjoying this? Do you want to try something else? You know that wouldn't be failing. It would be adding another skill you know and trying to kind of develop open communication so that our kids aren't feeling like they're stuck which is how I think they can. become, it can become that way. I mean, it hits on so much. Yeah, I had a kid this week, mom called me, just like, she wants to quit this team. I'm like, not my team, another team, try out for my team. I'm like, what's going on? And then she went through like some of the things that was happening between the kids and the coach and playing time. And I'm like, you just got to pull the kid. going, like if you're not enjoying it, don't do it. Simple as that. Cause you're not going to get the best out of anyone if you're dragging them to training. You also, you know, she's like, well, I don't want her to be a quitter. I'm like, hold on. You don't... that's a wrong term to use in that situation. If it's unhealthy, it's not quitting. Right? Like you got to find the balance. Yeah. you can have a day that it's hard to get to practice. You're feeling tired and you want to teach your child, you know, and I think it's partly like, and I've certainly had this conversation with my daughters, like you've made a commitment to something and people, your teammates are depending on you. And so that's a life skill, right? It doesn't mean that you always have to go, but today they're expecting you to be there. So we're going to follow through on that commitment. And then we can talk about if this makes sense for you to continue. So like you can do both. You cannot be someone who just blows people off, but also you can make sure that you're doing something that feels good. Yeah, I do have a question around this. I have a kid that is extremely nervous and I can tell, right? She comes and plays, she's at my stomach hurts, can I go to the restroom, da da da, and I'm an open coach. I'm like, yeah, do whatever you want. I don't just come back. But I'm also like, no, not today. Kind of like a tricky lie, white lie kind of scenario of like, the bathroom's a lot, you gotta keep going. And she's fine. Right, she's playing. So how do you deal with that? And also, let me just go back to my life. Scarlett sometimes, she's like, I'm not going on stage, dad. And I quickly realized she's extremely nervous in scenarios and situations she's not used to. If she's been to that place before and performed, no problem. There could be 5,000 people watching her, no problem. New environments, super nervous, doesn't wanna go on stage, refuses to dance, da da. Chad, were talking about it. Initially it was like, get your ass on stage. We're not playing around. And then I took a real big step back and I'm like, you're seven. You know what? You want to get ice cream after this? Let's start there and then let's build you back up. How do you deal with that? Like what's the psyche around kind of a nervous kid, anxiety, in the situation, scenario, peep, whatever. Yeah, great question. This comes up with kids a lot, especially with this generation of anxiety, right? So there's a few different ways of looking at it. I mean, the physiological response, this is like your sympathetic nervous system is taking over. And so I firmly believe we should be teaching kids stress management skills. We can dive into this topic, but. The schools are teaching, starting to do some SEL stuff, which is great. Some programs are teaching stress management, some are not. But I think for kids who don't always have the language to describe how they're feeling, they will often have physiological symptoms. And that's a much easier thing for them to communicate. have, you know, my tummy hurts, my foot hurts, whatever it is. And so, starting to make this connection between what are, first of all labeling the emotion for them and helping them make a connection between the physical experience that they're having and the emotion that they're feeling and helping them sort of see that pattern is first and foremost. And you can start doing this when they're two years old. mean, there's just like when they say like, my tummy hurts, you know what, they're driving up preschool every day. we're on the way to preschool, I wonder if you're feeling nervous, because you're going to say goodbye to mommy for the day. You can start to insert that in and make that connection for them and give them the language. Once kids have language to describe things, they often don't feel the physiological response quite as much. This is true for adults too. If you're, I mean, this is not just kid, right? Like if you're someone who gets nervous for public speaking, you're having the same physiological response that, you know, Scarlett was having. And once you can start to talk about that and label that, oftentimes it will subside. You just sort of know what it is. It doesn't freak you out quite as much. You know it will end. It's not going to last forever. And that's a lot of, you know, anxiety, like how you work with anxiety. So that's the first thing is like giving some language to it. I think and have seen kids respond really well to like learning the biology of stress and giving them a name for things. I mean, I've worked with kids who are like, my amygdala is really acting up, you know, and it gives them some power. They feel like they have some control over the situation. when they know like, well, if I want my amygdala to be quieter, I have to engage my prefrontal lobe, or my prefrontal cortex. And you kind of talk them, teach them about this stuff, and it really helps. So I mean, I think you can do this with your own kids. Like, well, right now, this, know, not in the moment, because in the moment, we're not great learners, just like we were like being chased in the woods, and our sympathetic nervous system is, you know, there's a bear chasing us. We're not like. Yeah. Yeah. into like, you know, arithmetic. They're not gonna learn anything in that moment. But when things are calm, just sort of like, these are some of the things that can happen in your body when you're feeling nervous. And this is why, and you know, and this is something called the parasympathetic nervous system. That's, you know, why breathing helps. And you teach them about these things. And then when they're in the moment, you can remind them of what they've learned previously to try them. So I would love for schools to be teaching. Can you imagine if we all learned how to manage stress in school? god, yeah. incredible. But just having a welcoming environment to do that, because I think there is stigma that's still out there to say, this is psychobabble. I come from the Midwest, that has been said to me, like, I'm not dealing with that hocus pocus stuff. Just get through it. Just tough it out. I think that's a great idea of teach the biology, teach what's actually happening so that there's control. Because if it feels like it's something you can't control, that makes it even scarier. and then you just, trying to cope instead of addressing. think teaching the biology, we can kind of skirt around the psychobabble part, because it's actually, we're teaching biology. And that's been a strategy I've used with like, you know, middle school and high school boys who don't want to have that conversation. But when it's suddenly, when it's about biology, it's like, they can tap into that. Because that is what it is. I mean, it is biology. It's really not psychology. It's actually biology, how our body responds to stress. And sometimes that stress is really good. And you can talk, you know, you could talk to Scarlett probably now about that, now that she's on seven, right? It's like, well, stress can actually do some really amazing things. You know, when people are stressed, they have like superhuman strength and they have hyper-focus. And so the stress can do really good things too, but it doesn't feel so great in your body. And so, and this is why. Absolutely great, great tips. I'm reminded of the girls being super young, we're teaching them how to take deep breaths. And Jackie just turning to me, like, I'm not taking a deep breath. Okay, sorry. I gotta approach it a little bit differently. Or they kind of do it in a way that's like hyperventilating. So it's not actually. helping. So a great tip for teaching kids about breathing for relaxation is to have them lie on the floor and then put like a stuffed animal or a beanie baby on their stomach and they can watch as it goes up and down as they fill their diaphragm with breath. Or they can, you can have them blow bubbles or any kind of activity. They have these little things where you have the ball float above the little net. I don't know if you've seen those. But there's little games and stuff so that their focus is on something else and it's not just on the breathing. I think that can be a little overwhelming for kids, which is why you see them say like, no, or they just start hyperventilating. Yeah, you've been in our house seeing our kids try and fight everything that we're trying to help them out. We used to do that with Maltesers. Do you have Maltesers in this country? No? You're both looking at me like, what are you talking about? No, I... A multi-poot? I don't blow on the multi-poot, Craig. No. It's a little, it's a little like caramel air pocket kind of round chocolate ball as such. And you can put it on your lips and you can blow it and it floats and then you eat it. Be a good one. Yes. Yes, yes. It wasn't sugar, the ones that I've thought of it was like you'd put this like gooey stuff on the end of a straw and blow and it would like turn into like a ball. Yeah. Okay. it, and then it used to be like a party trick for me. But it just got me thinking, that'd be a good way for the kids, because then they're breathing, and then they get a reward at the same time. and they have to, and you can't do it too hard. makers for like New Year's Eve where you blow out and then it fills out the straw. Make a lot of noise. like some kind of finesse breath, because if you go too hard or like it kind of, like the beanie baby will fall off or if you were to blow too hard on that, like it wouldn't make the Bubble properly. So it kind of teaches them how to like slow their breathing down. Yeah. fantastic. So Genna, with the last couple of minutes that we have left, we love asking our guests to give pieces of advice to everybody listening. And we've been pleasantly surprised about where we resonate because it's been in a multiple of different ways where some segments, you don't know what somebody's going through and they really identify with it. So you've been able to work with kids, with families, with couples directly. You've seen a lot in your school counseling days. What advice do you have for and the people listening today given the current climate and anxiety and focus on mental health. well, I think I'll speak to parents mostly because I think that's probably who's listening. I often, you know, ask parents as we get into the day to day, there's so much, there's so many variables and things that we're balancing and thinking about that we kind of lose sight of the overall goal. And so I often ask parents to think about like, what kind of adult do you want your child to become? And most of the time, Parents will say, you know, I want my child to be happy. I want them to be independent and then kind of work from there. Like what skills will they need to be able to do that? And everything else is just bonus, right? Like if you, usually the things that, that come to mind are like, want them to make friends and to be able to have, you know, relationships, lasting relationships or to be able to communicate or advocate for themselves or. you start to think about what is it that's gonna make my child happy and independent and kind. Those are kinds of, that's where you should be working from as a parent. And you know, the power school grades or the sports achievements or whatever it is, that's all just kind of like icing on the cake. That if we can kind of, if we can mold them and think about those sort of bigger priorities, then everything else just kind of falls into place. Not that it's easy. It's not easy, but it's just so important to have the tools and the focus, just realizing that we're not all perfect and we're working through it and there are ways to get through it is huge. Genna, we've... Sure. because of what I do. If, you know, obviously anxiety and stress is normal, but if you or your kids, it's like affecting your sleep and appetite and it's really like, you're not enjoying things like you used to enjoy your child isn't able to enjoy, like ask for help. You know, that it's easier to kind of approach things, when they first start to Bubble up than when they become sort of a snowball and, So speak with a pediatrician, speak with the school counselor or the teacher, look for help for yourself if you're finding your own stuff is kind of getting in the way of parenting. I know it's not everybody wants to speak with a therapist, but talk to your doctor. There are ways, there are people that have ideas and you don't have to kind of go at it alone. You're not going through it alone and you're not the only one to have these things going on in your life or to feel a certain way. And that's just, you know, eye-opening to know that you're not unique in that sense. We're all going through something and there's help out there. And speaking of help, a shout out to your business, Beacon Light Therapy. Visit beaconlighttherapy.com. You can learn more about Genna's practice and get any help or just a consultation and understanding of what help can be provided. Jen and we have absolutely enjoyed and love this conversation. Appreciate you coming on the show today. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm like honored to be a part of all of your amazing guests. So thank you. We appreciate that. For everybody listening, please continue to follow us. We are on Instagram, the Struggle Bubble Pod, and you can find all episodes on thestrugglebubble.com or anywhere that you get your podcasts. Really appreciate everybody listening, and we'll see everybody next week. Adios!